latest spear head aquisition

David R · 1st March 2020, 12:11 PM

This one turned up at a collectors meeting, just as I was looking for something like it. The square-ish tang makes me think Philippines, but the narrow, hollow ground section gives me pause for thought. It is very much a stabber and mail piercing blade rather than the broader bladed spears that seem more typical.

I punched it through some card to show the X section more clearly.

drac2k · 1st March 2020, 02:33 PM

I would almost guess that it was a Japanese yari spearhead if it wasn't for the tang configuration. Nice blade whatever it is.

Kmaddock · 1st March 2020, 08:40 PM

Hi
Do you think the tang has been worked on as it Looks to be very small in relation to the blade

I would have taught if it was mounted in a shaft the leverage of the blade would pop the tang out of the ide of the shaft quiet easily

I taught yari also when I first saw the photo.

Regards

Ken

David R · 1st March 2020, 08:57 PM

It does look small, but so are the tangs on most Philippine spears. Like you say, they look too small, but I see the same on a lot of ethnic blades.....

Below is an example posted on this site some time ago.

Ian · 4th March 2020, 08:35 PM

Hi David,

You are not getting much help with the Philippine origin (or otherwise) of your spear head, and I'm thinking that is because the hollow ground nature of the blade is causing people to scratch their heads a bit. I find it odd for a Philippine spear, but perhaps it is a rare variant. At the same time, I can't think of a clear alternative origin.

Ian.

David R · 4th March 2020, 08:54 PM

This is exactly why I posted it, it does not look like the run of the mill Budiak, though I have seen some of them get close..... It is very much an armour piercing blade, and some Moro did wear armour!

At some point I will give it a scrub and an etch, and see what comes out.

Battara · 5th March 2020, 03:39 AM

Moro armour has more carabao and brass plates. This spearhead profile looks more for chainmaille than Moro armour.

I think it is also too thin for the usual Moro spearhead. And most Philippine spears have round tangs, nothing like this.

Ian is right - I was also scratching my head.

David R · 5th March 2020, 10:20 AM

Looking around I have found Moro spears that are narrow, though not quite as narrow as mine. Regarding the tang, one pic below is of my spear tang, and the other of a known Moro spear.

Battara · 5th March 2020, 11:57 PM

As I said "most" are round tangs, and even the example of a square tang that you show is not like the hollowed spearhead - it is rounded at top of the tang. Now most of then other Philippine spearheads that are square at the base are from Lumad groups (ie. Bagobo).

Also yours in question is not just narrower than Moro spearheads, but also (so far) Moro spearheads are not hollow ground.

David R · 6th March 2020, 02:42 PM

These differences are why I posted it here. I am not pushing for it to be something it is not, I am wanting input as to what it might be.

Will M · 6th March 2020, 03:26 PM

The closest lance head yours resembles is the British 1846 with the long langets removed and a tang added. Ref: The Cavalry Lance, Alan Larsen & Henry Yallop

David R · 7th March 2020, 06:56 PM

Well it's not one of them! I am still looking for what it might be.... The problem is that the sharp end sends one message, and the tang end a different one.

The closest I have found is an Indonesian spear, with the head made out of Wootz.

Battara · 8th March 2020, 09:47 PM

Hmmmm............wootz............could it be a Persian or Indian traded spearhead then?

David R · 8th March 2020, 10:09 PM

I just don't know! That will have to wait on me doing a quick scrub and etch.

It's a frustrating piece. The blade shape has been a "go too" for a rigid stabbing spear since the bronze age, so is really more about function than ethnicity. I see example from bronze age Luristan, Migration period Norway, and even 19th century Europe, and damn near everywhere and when in between. I thought the tang would be more indicative of origin, as that is more about local traditions in smithing than function.

It's well made, quite heavy and functional, and so I am confident that it is not some dealers sport. I will have to see what an etch brings out.

milandro · 18th January 2023, 01:13 PM

David R, I just posted a spear that shows some similitudes with yours, at the very least the shape of the tang

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...168#post278168

1st March 2020, 12:11 PM	#1
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,120	latest spear head aquisition This one turned up at a collectors meeting, just as I was looking for something like it. The square-ish tang makes me think Philippines, but the narrow, hollow ground section gives me pause for thought. It is very much a stabber and mail piercing blade rather than the broader bladed spears that seem more typical. I punched it through some card to show the X section more clearly. Attached Images

1st March 2020, 08:57 PM	#4
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,120	It does look small, but so are the tangs on most Philippine spears. Like you say, they look too small, but I see the same on a lot of ethnic blades..... Below is an example posted on this site some time ago. Attached Images

5th March 2020, 10:20 AM	#8
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,120	Looking around I have found Moro spears that are narrow, though not quite as narrow as mine. Regarding the tang, one pic below is of my spear tang, and the other of a known Moro spear. Attached Images

7th March 2020, 06:56 PM	#12
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,120	Well it's not one of them! I am still looking for what it might be.... The problem is that the sharp end sends one message, and the tang end a different one. The closest I have found is an Indonesian spear, with the head made out of Wootz. Attached Images Last edited by David R; 7th March 2020 at 07:11 PM.

1st March 2020, 02:33 PM	#2
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,258	I would almost guess that it was a Japanese yari spearhead if it wasn't for the tang configuration. Nice blade whatever it is.

1st March 2020, 08:40 PM	#3
Kmaddock Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Ireland Posts: 543	Hi Do you think the tang has been worked on as it Looks to be very small in relation to the blade I would have taught if it was mounted in a shaft the leverage of the blade would pop the tang out of the ide of the shaft quiet easily I taught yari also when I first saw the photo. Regards Ken

4th March 2020, 08:35 PM	#5
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,395	Hi David, You are not getting much help with the Philippine origin (or otherwise) of your spear head, and I'm thinking that is because the hollow ground nature of the blade is causing people to scratch their heads a bit. I find it odd for a Philippine spear, but perhaps it is a rare variant. At the same time, I can't think of a clear alternative origin. Ian.

4th March 2020, 08:54 PM	#6
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,120	This is exactly why I posted it, it does not look like the run of the mill Budiak, though I have seen some of them get close..... It is very much an armour piercing blade, and some Moro did wear armour! At some point I will give it a scrub and an etch, and see what comes out.

5th March 2020, 03:39 AM	#7
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	Moro armour has more carabao and brass plates. This spearhead profile looks more for chainmaille than Moro armour. I think it is also too thin for the usual Moro spearhead. And most Philippine spears have round tangs, nothing like this. Ian is right - I was also scratching my head.

5th March 2020, 11:57 PM	#9
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	As I said "most" are round tangs, and even the example of a square tang that you show is not like the hollowed spearhead - it is rounded at top of the tang. Now most of then other Philippine spearheads that are square at the base are from Lumad groups (ie. Bagobo). Also yours in question is not just narrower than Moro spearheads, but also (so far) Moro spearheads are not hollow ground.

6th March 2020, 02:42 PM	#10
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,120	These differences are why I posted it here. I am not pushing for it to be something it is not, I am wanting input as to what it might be.

6th March 2020, 03:26 PM	#11
Will M Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: In the wee woods north of Napanee Ontario Posts: 395	The closest lance head yours resembles is the British 1846 with the long langets removed and a tang added. Ref: The Cavalry Lance, Alan Larsen & Henry Yallop

8th March 2020, 09:47 PM	#13
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	Hmmmm............wootz............could it be a Persian or Indian traded spearhead then?

8th March 2020, 10:09 PM	#14
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,120	I just don't know! That will have to wait on me doing a quick scrub and etch. It's a frustrating piece. The blade shape has been a "go too" for a rigid stabbing spear since the bronze age, so is really more about function than ethnicity. I see example from bronze age Luristan, Migration period Norway, and even 19th century Europe, and damn near everywhere and when in between. I thought the tang would be more indicative of origin, as that is more about local traditions in smithing than function. It's well made, quite heavy and functional, and so I am confident that it is not some dealers sport. I will have to see what an etch brings out.

18th January 2023, 01:13 PM	#15
milandro Member Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Netherlands Posts: 492	David R, I just posted a spear that shows some similitudes with yours, at the very least the shape of the tang http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...168#post278168