Superstition in connection with lodestone?

Jens Nordlunde · 8th May 2006, 01:34 PM

Hi Jim,

I was of the impression that lodestone and magnetic ore was the same, but maybe I am wrong. May point with this thread was to stress that not only magnetic ore was used for ingots, an impression you can get when reading some of the books, ‘normal’ iron ore was used as well and in a much bigger quantity. This difference in the ores could be the reason why there is/was something magic about iron. The blacksmiths were respected but feared, a nail from a horseshoe, or other small pieces of iron, could make wonders, either in your pocket, buried in front of your house door or hammered into the door poster. Even those not believing in the power of iron might have used it after the devise – better safe than sorry.

Jim McDougall · 8th May 2006, 09:22 PM

Well said Jens

That was what I had thought too, but your question sent me off through the archives here and from what I can understand, the raw material was comprised of pretty much an amalgam of the categories of iro ore. My impression is that one of the secrets of the wootz may lie chemically with the materials used in carburizing the smelted metal. You are very right on the superstitions concerning iron though, and we have been discussing that on the current 'takouba' thread. The blacksmiths it seems were typically pariahs in society, as they dealt in 'black' arts, necessary, yet feared or regarded with considerable apprehension.

I think we had a great discussion a while back on the magnetism imbued in some blades, and certain perspectives on quality or superstition associated with these blades. I am far from any sort of real understanding of metallurgy, but it seems that magnetized iron, lodestone, when reaching a certain temperature (Curie point?) it loses this property. Thus it seems strange that a blade might be magnetic, however I think the lodestone can be remagnetized, so possibly this is what occurs. Help! Metallurgists out there!
Ann? Tom? Karel?

Good thoughts Jens, as always fascinating topics!!

All the best,
Jim

Jeff Pringle · 9th May 2006, 03:51 PM

Lodestone = magnetite, (Fe3O4) - in terms of smelting, the most iron per pound of ore, so in that sense probably very desireable to the ancient smelters, but Hematite (Fe2O3), is not far behind, and they are often found together.
I'm sure they just used what they could get, but liked the richest ore the best.

I also think there's some info on ores in 'Persian Steel', but I can't find my copy

8th May 2006, 01:34 PM	#1
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hi Jim, I was of the impression that lodestone and magnetic ore was the same, but maybe I am wrong. May point with this thread was to stress that not only magnetic ore was used for ingots, an impression you can get when reading some of the books, ‘normal’ iron ore was used as well and in a much bigger quantity. This difference in the ores could be the reason why there is/was something magic about iron. The blacksmiths were respected but feared, a nail from a horseshoe, or other small pieces of iron, could make wonders, either in your pocket, buried in front of your house door or hammered into the door poster. Even those not believing in the power of iron might have used it after the devise – better safe than sorry.

8th May 2006, 09:22 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	Well said Jens That was what I had thought too, but your question sent me off through the archives here and from what I can understand, the raw material was comprised of pretty much an amalgam of the categories of iro ore. My impression is that one of the secrets of the wootz may lie chemically with the materials used in carburizing the smelted metal. You are very right on the superstitions concerning iron though, and we have been discussing that on the current 'takouba' thread. The blacksmiths it seems were typically pariahs in society, as they dealt in 'black' arts, necessary, yet feared or regarded with considerable apprehension. I think we had a great discussion a while back on the magnetism imbued in some blades, and certain perspectives on quality or superstition associated with these blades. I am far from any sort of real understanding of metallurgy, but it seems that magnetized iron, lodestone, when reaching a certain temperature (Curie point?) it loses this property. Thus it seems strange that a blade might be magnetic, however I think the lodestone can be remagnetized, so possibly this is what occurs. Help! Metallurgists out there! Ann? Tom? Karel? Good thoughts Jens, as always fascinating topics!! All the best, Jim

9th May 2006, 03:51 PM	#3
Jeff Pringle Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 189	Lodestone = magnetite, (Fe3O4) - in terms of smelting, the most iron per pound of ore, so in that sense probably very desireable to the ancient smelters, but Hematite (Fe2O3), is not far behind, and they are often found together. I'm sure they just used what they could get, but liked the richest ore the best. I also think there's some info on ores in 'Persian Steel', but I can't find my copy