Lance head/ spear point for ID

asomotif · 8th September 2010, 01:11 AM

I bought this large lance head.

The blade is 34 cms long, 6,5 cms broad at the widest point and 1,4 cms thick at the base. The tang is

The tang is square, but with a twisted part.
The shaft is dark heavy hard wood with a more or less hair like structure.
Palm wood ?

Can anyone help me with ID on this one ?
Also I would like to know what the metal fitting must have looked like.

Thanks and best regards,
Willem

Battara · 8th September 2010, 01:51 AM

What a weird piece?

I like it, but weird. The form throws me, but the laminations look Indonesian.

asomotif · 8th September 2010, 08:36 PM

Thanks Battara for the reaction.

Considering it looks weird to you means that I can rule out Philipine/Moro origin ?

The holes in the blade remind of Borneo blades that sometimes have holes near the base.
But those blades are much simpler. often not laminated.
Any ideas ?

Thanks and best regards,
Willem

Maurice · 8th September 2010, 09:13 PM

Hi Willem,

I don't know about this lance head.
But I have seen the images of the spears from the collection of Thorkild Moller, who had collected pieces from Borneo which were confiscated in the early '20's.
And believe me, there were awesome pieces, also with pamor if I recall it rightly...

Maurice

Henk · 8th September 2010, 11:25 PM

Willem,

Very nice. I think it is javanese. I would say a tombak or pike.
I found a picture on the internet. I think it should look like this one.

asomotif · 9th September 2010, 12:38 AM

Hello Henk,

Thanks for your input.
But javanese with the square tang and also this rather large size.
The 34 cms is excluding the tang.

I have not seen javanese tombak in such style and size. (yet)

Best regards,
Willem

Henk · 9th September 2010, 12:58 AM

Willem,

someone has to be the first

kai · 9th September 2010, 03:13 AM

Hello Willem,

This looks like post-WW2 work to me - non-traditional stuff can be tough to place: I'd guess Indonesia but wouldn't rule out Philippines (certainly not traditional Moro though) nor Malaysia.

Regards,
Kai

Sajen · 9th September 2010, 05:51 PM

Hi Willem,

my guess is that it is from Indonesia, the turned tang seems typical. But from which island/ethnic I don't know.

But I think that it is pre-WW2. By which reason someone shall have forged a spear- or lance head with not bad accomplishment after WW2?

Regards,

Detlef

asomotif · 9th September 2010, 10:47 PM

I found some spears on RMV website with holes near the base.
There are similarities, although mine is much broader.
The tang of the RMV pieces would be nice to see for comparison.

asomotif · 26th January 2018, 09:52 PM

I found another similar lance this week.

David · 27th January 2018, 01:44 AM

Well, it seems to have a metuk so that seems to place it somewhere in Indonesia for me. I couldn't say exactly where though. Seems like it could be early 20th century.

kai · 27th January 2018, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Seems like it could be early 20th century.

Possibly even earlier, David.

Regards,
Kai

kai · 27th January 2018, 01:52 AM

Nice find, Willem! Thanks for showing - please add pics of the whole piece, too!

Regards,
Kai

Battara · 27th January 2018, 04:14 AM

I'm with Kai on this. In fact I like the laminations on this even better!

asomotif · 27th January 2018, 10:33 AM

Here are some pictures from the seller.
He got the lance from his neighbour 12 years ago.
She was a woman of 90 years at that time, and according to her, her father brought this lance from Borneo.
So this lance was most probably collected pre ww2.
Late 19th / early 20th is my guess as well.

The tip has some damage an will need some working.
When I get to that I will also give it a light etch to show the laminations.

I am very happy with this very complete lance.

asomotif · 9th April 2018, 09:21 PM

Here some more pictures including a new aquisition in the same style.

The 3rd one is not making it easier to pin point an origin on this shape.

asomotif · 25th January 2020, 10:36 PM

I found an auction in the UK in 2017 where these 3 lances were sold.
The description is only "indonesian 19th cent."

8th September 2010, 01:11 AM	#1
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,225	Lance head/ spear point for ID I bought this large lance head. The blade is 34 cms long, 6,5 cms broad at the widest point and 1,4 cms thick at the base. The tang is The tang is square, but with a twisted part. The shaft is dark heavy hard wood with a more or less hair like structure. Palm wood ? Can anyone help me with ID on this one ? Also I would like to know what the metal fitting must have looked like. Thanks and best regards, Willem Attached Images

8th September 2010, 11:25 PM	#5
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Willem, Very nice. I think it is javanese. I would say a tombak or pike. I found a picture on the internet. I think it should look like this one. Attached Images

9th September 2010, 10:47 PM	#10
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,225	Pics from RMV Leiden I found some spears on RMV website with holes near the base. There are similarities, although mine is much broader. The tang of the RMV pieces would be nice to see for comparison. Attached Images

26th January 2018, 09:52 PM	#11
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,225	I found another similar lance this week. Attached Images

27th January 2018, 10:33 AM	#16
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,225	Here are some pictures from the seller. He got the lance from his neighbour 12 years ago. She was a woman of 90 years at that time, and according to her, her father brought this lance from Borneo. So this lance was most probably collected pre ww2. Late 19th / early 20th is my guess as well. The tip has some damage an will need some working. When I get to that I will also give it a light etch to show the laminations. I am very happy with this very complete lance. Attached Images

8th September 2010, 01:51 AM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,226	What a weird piece? I like it, but weird. The form throws me, but the laminations look Indonesian.

8th September 2010, 08:36 PM	#3
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,225	Thanks Battara for the reaction. Considering it looks weird to you means that I can rule out Philipine/Moro origin ? The holes in the blade remind of Borneo blades that sometimes have holes near the base. But those blades are much simpler. often not laminated. Any ideas ? Thanks and best regards, Willem

8th September 2010, 09:13 PM	#4
Maurice Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,349	Hi Willem, I don't know about this lance head. But I have seen the images of the spears from the collection of Thorkild Moller, who had collected pieces from Borneo which were confiscated in the early '20's. And believe me, there were awesome pieces, also with pamor if I recall it rightly... Maurice

9th September 2010, 12:38 AM	#6
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,225	Hello Henk, Thanks for your input. But javanese with the square tang and also this rather large size. The 34 cms is excluding the tang. I have not seen javanese tombak in such style and size. (yet) Best regards, Willem

9th September 2010, 12:58 AM	#7
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Willem, someone has to be the first

9th September 2010, 03:13 AM	#8
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Hello Willem, This looks like post-WW2 work to me - non-traditional stuff can be tough to place: I'd guess Indonesia but wouldn't rule out Philippines (certainly not traditional Moro though) nor Malaysia. Regards, Kai

9th September 2010, 05:51 PM	#9
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,786	Hi Willem, my guess is that it is from Indonesia, the turned tang seems typical. But from which island/ethnic I don't know. But I think that it is pre-WW2. By which reason someone shall have forged a spear- or lance head with not bad accomplishment after WW2? Regards, Detlef

27th January 2018, 01:44 AM	#12
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,127	Well, it seems to have a metuk so that seems to place it somewhere in Indonesia for me. I couldn't say exactly where though. Seems like it could be early 20th century.

27th January 2018, 01:52 AM	#14
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Nice find, Willem! Thanks for showing - please add pics of the whole piece, too! Regards, Kai

27th January 2018, 04:14 AM	#15
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,226	I'm with Kai on this. In fact I like the laminations on this even better!

9th April 2018, 09:21 PM	#17
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,225	Here some more pictures including a new aquisition in the same style. The 3rd one is not making it easier to pin point an origin on this shape. Attached Images

25th January 2020, 10:36 PM	#18
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,225	I found an auction in the UK in 2017 where these 3 lances were sold. The description is only "indonesian 19th cent." Attached Images