Mysterious sword

CharlesS · 12th January 2020, 08:51 PM

I tend to agree with the above comments. I am fairly certain the fittings are much younger than the rest of the nice sword.

Ian · 13th January 2020, 12:58 AM

Might it be that this sword took a trip with its owner on a pilgrimage, say on The Haj, and had the silver work performed in the Middle East. In that case, perhaps Ibrahiim might recognize the style of silver decoration and be able to help.

Ian

Paul B. · 14th January 2020, 05:59 AM

Here is a fairly similar silver decoration at the neck of a badik but this one looks much older. It comes from a recent auction.

Checked my collection and there is a keris dress with the same workmanship (anyway not silver). Later addition.

Albert · 14th January 2020, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul B.

Here is a fairly similar silver decoration at the neck of a badik but this one looks much older. It comes from a recent auction.

Checked my collection and there is a keris dress with the same workmanship (anyway not silver). Later addition.

Especially the decoration of the badik is very similar.
From where is the badik?

A. G. Maisey · 14th January 2020, 11:39 PM

The badik hilt form seems to be associated by many people with the North Coast of Jawa, but the scabbard for these supposedly North Coast badik differs from Paul's, and they all seem to have various blades, most of the blades I've seen in ones attributed to North Coast have been re-purposed blades from keris and pedangs. I have also seen blades similar to Paul's blade mounted as keris in East Jawa.

My guess would be that Paul's is perhaps an old, but legitimate marriage, and all the components come from different places.

This type of silver work can be found originating from Surabaya, as well as other places in Jawa. I feel it is pretty well spread throughout SE Asia.

Athanase · 15th January 2020, 03:45 PM

Hello,

For me the silver parts are younger. For the origin I think Sulawesi or Java (the mouth of the scabbard with the little hook is in Javanese style).

Battara · 15th January 2020, 04:52 PM

If this were old, then there would be black or dark patina in the crevices. So I also conclude that this is newer work. Nice work, but newer work.

Albert · 15th January 2020, 07:59 PM

I just found this photograph of the top end of a hilt (not mine unfortunately).
The hilt is of a North Sumatran sewar.
It also has clear resemblences.

DaveA · 16th January 2020, 09:07 PM

I concur with the earlier comments regarding the filigree: Burma.

Regarding the hilt, compare it with this one in my collection. The sword originates from a Dutch colonial collection. I acquired it from a well-known collector who specializes in this region.

The blade is pattern-welded with a nice linear pamor. A single fuller extends along the spine of the blade until the blade narrows towards the tip. The blade is 6.7mm thick at the base with a length of 585mm.

The hilt features silver work (no filigree) with a small bit of damage on the left side. The horn pommel is interpreted as a stylized clenched fist. This is a rare but not unknown motif from the eastern side of Sumatra. Alternatively, it may also be a stylized hulu iku ite.

The overall length (OAL) is 735mm. The sword is heavy in comparison with other pedangs, weighing 727g (1 lb 9.6 oz)

Ian · 19th January 2020, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Albert

I just found this photograph of the top end of a hilt (not mine unfortunately).
The hilt is of a North Sumatran sewar.
It also has clear resemblences.

Albert, it seems as though the responses are mainly coalescing around a N. Sumatra origin for this interesting sword. From what you show on the siwar hilt, your sword could be all local N. Sumatran work. The sword shown by DaveA (another nice sword BTW) would also seem to support that idea.

Ian.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 14th January 2020, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

Might it be that this sword took a trip with its owner on a pilgrimage, say on The Haj, and had the silver work performed in the Middle East. In that case, perhaps Ibrahiim might recognize the style of silver decoration and be able to help.

Ian

I see no similarities except in perhaps about 1%/2% of the work to anything vaguely Omani or Arabian thus I suggest it is purely local and true to form for its region.

Kubur · 16th January 2020, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

I see no similarities except in perhaps about 1%/2% of the work to anything vaguely Omani or Arabian thus I suggest it is purely local and true to form for its region.

Yes filigree is not only Arab or Jew, you have filigree all over the world.
This filigree is South-East Asian.

13th January 2020, 12:58 AM	#2
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,361	Another thought ... Might it be that this sword took a trip with its owner on a pilgrimage, say on The Haj, and had the silver work performed in the Middle East. In that case, perhaps Ibrahiim might recognize the style of silver decoration and be able to help. Ian

14th January 2020, 05:59 AM	#3
Paul B. Member Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 205	Here is a fairly similar silver decoration at the neck of a badik but this one looks much older. It comes from a recent auction. Checked my collection and there is a keris dress with the same workmanship (anyway not silver). Later addition. Attached Images Last edited by Paul B.; 14th January 2020 at 06:33 AM.

15th January 2020, 07:59 PM	#8
Albert Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 200	Sumatra? I just found this photograph of the top end of a hilt (not mine unfortunately). The hilt is of a North Sumatran sewar. It also has clear resemblences. Attached Images

16th January 2020, 09:07 PM	#9
DaveA Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Wisconsin, USA Posts: 415	Pedang palembang from Sumatra I concur with the earlier comments regarding the filigree: Burma. Regarding the hilt, compare it with this one in my collection. The sword originates from a Dutch colonial collection. I acquired it from a well-known collector who specializes in this region. The blade is pattern-welded with a nice linear pamor. A single fuller extends along the spine of the blade until the blade narrows towards the tip. The blade is 6.7mm thick at the base with a length of 585mm. The hilt features silver work (no filigree) with a small bit of damage on the left side. The horn pommel is interpreted as a stylized clenched fist. This is a rare but not unknown motif from the eastern side of Sumatra. Alternatively, it may also be a stylized hulu iku ite. The overall length (OAL) is 735mm. The sword is heavy in comparison with other pedangs, weighing 727g (1 lb 9.6 oz) Attached Images

12th January 2020, 08:51 PM	#1
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,854	I tend to agree with the above comments. I am fairly certain the fittings are much younger than the rest of the nice sword.

14th January 2020, 11:39 PM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,989	The badik hilt form seems to be associated by many people with the North Coast of Jawa, but the scabbard for these supposedly North Coast badik differs from Paul's, and they all seem to have various blades, most of the blades I've seen in ones attributed to North Coast have been re-purposed blades from keris and pedangs. I have also seen blades similar to Paul's blade mounted as keris in East Jawa. My guess would be that Paul's is perhaps an old, but legitimate marriage, and all the components come from different places. This type of silver work can be found originating from Surabaya, as well as other places in Jawa. I feel it is pretty well spread throughout SE Asia.

15th January 2020, 03:45 PM	#6
Athanase Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Paris (France) Posts: 417	Hello, For me the silver parts are younger. For the origin I think Sulawesi or Java (the mouth of the scabbard with the little hook is in Javanese style).

15th January 2020, 04:52 PM	#7
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,270	If this were old, then there would be black or dark patina in the crevices. So I also conclude that this is newer work. Nice work, but newer work.