Tenegre with kampilan blade?

Battara · 2nd January 2020, 08:04 PM

Interesting piece. Not impossible, though not usually seen. They are close to the Moro lands and it is not unknown to have a Visayan hilt with a Moro blade (ex: I have a small tenegre hilt with a Moro gunong blade).

carlos · 4th January 2020, 03:48 PM

Thanks for your opinion¡

QUOTE=Battara]Interesting piece. Not impossible, though not usually seen. They are close to the Moro lands and it is not unknown to have a Visayan hilt with a Moro blade (ex: I have a small tenegre hilt with a Moro gunong blade).[/QUOTE]

Battara · 4th January 2020, 04:50 PM

Also your piece does not look "married" to me, but the blade seems to fit into the slot perfectly. They were made together.

I fixed the picture to show what I mean.

kai · 4th January 2020, 09:21 PM

Hello Jose,

can you narrow down the origin of the hilt for either place/group or time? It does seem more roughly carved than most of the antique examples I remember.

Regards,
Kai

kai · 4th January 2020, 09:25 PM

Hello Carlos,

I'm not convinced that the blade really originates with any Moro group. The tip configuration seems to exhibit slight deviations from the norm and also the blade cross section near the base looks different from antique kampilan.

Regards,
Kai

ariel · 4th January 2020, 11:26 PM

Not being a “guru” of Indonesian/ Philippine weapons, my comment is general in nature : I am suspicious of the even layer of red rust all over the blade. A bit fishy, IMHO.

Battara · 5th January 2020, 01:02 AM

Good questions. So a few things:

1. the blade is from Mindanao. Both the Maranao and Maguindanao tribes use it (as well as Lumad groups).

2. I have seen various levels of carving quality on tenegre hilts. This one could simply be a fighter. I would place this around Panay Island in the Visayas, above Mindanao Island.

3. I would take a guess that this could have been made during the turn of the 20th century.

4. Remember that my modification of the picture was only to show where the blade went into the hilt. It is not natural, so the rust looks more red than true brown, which it is in reality.

5. In the original pictures of the blade, I can see different color hues of patina/rust that correspond to the different laminations in the blade. Thus it is an old and not a recent blade. It also matches the patina/rust on the steel ferrule on the hilt.

6. I cropped and enlarged my modified picture for you Kai.

7. I will also add that there are some straight sections on the hilt that originally had silver or brass overlay pieces.

4th January 2020, 04:50 PM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	Also your piece does not look "married" to me, but the blade seems to fit into the slot perfectly. They were made together. I fixed the picture to show what I mean. Attached Images

5th January 2020, 01:02 AM	#7
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	Good questions. So a few things: 1. the blade is from Mindanao. Both the Maranao and Maguindanao tribes use it (as well as Lumad groups). 2. I have seen various levels of carving quality on tenegre hilts. This one could simply be a fighter. I would place this around Panay Island in the Visayas, above Mindanao Island. 3. I would take a guess that this could have been made during the turn of the 20th century. 4. Remember that my modification of the picture was only to show where the blade went into the hilt. It is not natural, so the rust looks more red than true brown, which it is in reality. 5. In the original pictures of the blade, I can see different color hues of patina/rust that correspond to the different laminations in the blade. Thus it is an old and not a recent blade. It also matches the patina/rust on the steel ferrule on the hilt. 6. I cropped and enlarged my modified picture for you Kai. 7. I will also add that there are some straight sections on the hilt that originally had silver or brass overlay pieces. Attached Images

2nd January 2020, 08:04 PM	#1
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	Interesting piece. Not impossible, though not usually seen. They are close to the Moro lands and it is not unknown to have a Visayan hilt with a Moro blade (ex: I have a small tenegre hilt with a Moro gunong blade).

4th January 2020, 03:48 PM	#2
carlos Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 751	Thanks for your opinion¡ QUOTE=Battara]Interesting piece. Not impossible, though not usually seen. They are close to the Moro lands and it is not unknown to have a Visayan hilt with a Moro blade (ex: I have a small tenegre hilt with a Moro gunong blade).[/QUOTE]

4th January 2020, 09:21 PM	#4
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	Hello Jose, can you narrow down the origin of the hilt for either place/group or time? It does seem more roughly carved than most of the antique examples I remember. Regards, Kai

4th January 2020, 09:25 PM	#5
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	Hello Carlos, I'm not convinced that the blade really originates with any Moro group. The tip configuration seems to exhibit slight deviations from the norm and also the blade cross section near the base looks different from antique kampilan. Regards, Kai

4th January 2020, 11:26 PM	#6
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Not being a “guru” of Indonesian/ Philippine weapons, my comment is general in nature : I am suspicious of the even layer of red rust all over the blade. A bit fishy, IMHO.