Scottish Broad Sword

Jim McDougall · 26th December 2019, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

My vote is Scottish. The English pommels were still more 'bun-shaped'. Also, from the style of the basket, this appears post-Rebellion, so many of the Scottish swords of the next period (1770's on) were essentially Scottish troops serving the English, when the basket patterns began to look more 'English' in style. Beautiful basket!

Spot on Cap'n!
Scottish hilts had the open furrow or ring around the pommel where the arms of the guard joined, while English typically used screws. Also, the English hilts were more 'workman' like without the pierced designs, which were often regarded as Jacobite symbols though there is no clear definition of what these were specifically.
The 'ram horns' ( a term only used by Mazansky as far as most regard) would not be on an English hilt.
As you have noted, 'Scottish' designed hilts were still produced in the 'garrison' towns post Rebellion (after 1746) Primarily Glasgow and by Scottish hammermen for the forces of Scottish units now in the British army.

Regiments such as the Royal Scots Greys still used Scottish style hilts, while others used the less Scottish styles with plain plates and there were the types for Black Watch made in Birmingham.

The brisk trade of importing blades from Solingen remained key through the 18th century,and many of the blades remained in circulation for many years.

As far as I have known on the inscription on the blade here, it may be a corruption or cognate of Latin ' in mind', but cannot recall the exact details. It seems like German piecing of a phrase.

As always, I would defer to the real experts here on these, Eljay and Cathey!

kronckew · 26th December 2019, 06:42 AM

Scotland was an independent State until the Act of Union in 1707, after that the separate states of England, Wales, Ireland became "The United Kingdom of Great Britain".

Therefore after that, the inhabitants of Great Britain were 'British' as well as Scots or English, etc. As the combined Parliament was in London and was originally just 'English', It usually referred to the Union as 'England' and the subjects as English out of habit. especially after Culloden saw the end of the Jacobite rebellion referred to earlier.

This has lessened over time, with the secession of Ireland, the UK retained the northern Ulster County as 'Northern Ireland. Old tour Guides of 'England' usually included the other nations of the Union.

The states other than England now have their own assemblies with devolved powers from the central Parliament, tho England does not have it's own. Yet.

Anyway for matters pertaining to the whole, citizens are still occasionally referred to as English (or British). The Union uses English as the Official language, the individual states have their own languages, Wales uses it's officially on it's signage as well as English.

'English' swords can mean swords of the whole union, or just from England without rhyme nor reason. Scottish swords would more naturally pertain to Scottish pattern weapons which can be made anywhere in the UK.

Confusing isn't it?

p.s.- For tourists from outside the UK, Don't call a Scot 'English or he'll give you a good thrashing, or buy you a beer and spend an hour telling you in a barely intelligible dialect he will insist is english, why he is NOT English (Sassenach). Buy that one a beer in return before leaving. Less likely in Wales, they'll probably correct you tho, they're Welsh. English that buy summer homes in Wales have been known to have their houses torched, thankfully that tend to happen when they are not in residence. I am only a few miles from Wales, I do not, as yet, need a passport or visa to go there.

NI - some will not mind, some may correct you that they are British, some may thrash you. Some may do worse.

The UK armed forces however will more than likely band together in good natured bar fights (or real ones) against the forces of nations outside the UK and thrash them. US Yanks and Canadian or Commonwealth forces may be adopted as 'English' allies against non-English speaking nations. All in fun of course...

MINI? Made In Northern Ireland?

(just joking)

corrado26 · 26th December 2019, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

MINI? Made In Northern Ireland?

26th December 2019, 06:42 AM	#2
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,215	Scotland was an independent State until the Act of Union in 1707, after that the separate states of England, Wales, Ireland became "The United Kingdom of Great Britain". Therefore after that, the inhabitants of Great Britain were 'British' as well as Scots or English, etc. As the combined Parliament was in London and was originally just 'English', It usually referred to the Union as 'England' and the subjects as English out of habit. especially after Culloden saw the end of the Jacobite rebellion referred to earlier. This has lessened over time, with the secession of Ireland, the UK retained the northern Ulster County as 'Northern Ireland. Old tour Guides of 'England' usually included the other nations of the Union. The states other than England now have their own assemblies with devolved powers from the central Parliament, tho England does not have it's own. Yet. Anyway for matters pertaining to the whole, citizens are still occasionally referred to as English (or British). The Union uses English as the Official language, the individual states have their own languages, Wales uses it's officially on it's signage as well as English. 'English' swords can mean swords of the whole union, or just from England without rhyme nor reason. Scottish swords would more naturally pertain to Scottish pattern weapons which can be made anywhere in the UK. Confusing isn't it? p.s.- For tourists from outside the UK, Don't call a Scot 'English or he'll give you a good thrashing, or buy you a beer and spend an hour telling you in a barely intelligible dialect he will insist is english, why he is NOT English (Sassenach). Buy that one a beer in return before leaving. Less likely in Wales, they'll probably correct you tho, they're Welsh. English that buy summer homes in Wales have been known to have their houses torched, thankfully that tend to happen when they are not in residence. I am only a few miles from Wales, I do not, as yet, need a passport or visa to go there. NI - some will not mind, some may correct you that they are British, some may thrash you. Some may do worse. The UK armed forces however will more than likely band together in good natured bar fights (or real ones) against the forces of nations outside the UK and thrash them. US Yanks and Canadian or Commonwealth forces may be adopted as 'English' allies against non-English speaking nations. All in fun of course... MINI? Made In Northern Ireland? (just joking) Last edited by kronckew; 26th December 2019 at 07:19 AM.