Etching wootz, opinion needed.

mross · 18th December 2019, 03:43 PM

I know this is kinda old but I am getting ready to etch a possibly wootz blade with nital 3%. For those of you that use nital 3% what do you do afterwards? Baking soda or a acid neutralizer?

Kmaddock · 18th December 2019, 04:51 PM

I use baking soda and never had any issues at all
best of luck
ken

Battara · 18th December 2019, 10:18 PM

Same here. Baking soda directly on the blade after you rinse it off in water.

mross · 19th December 2019, 04:10 PM

Thanks. I'll take pictures and post one way or another.

h0ll0wman · 13th September 2021, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

Same here. Baking soda directly on the blade after you rinse it off in water.

Hello Battara. Is this for cleaning the blade after etching? I also use it but I mix it with water then wipe the blade after etching. I haven't tried putting the baking soda directly on the blade. Should I let the baking soda sit for a number of minutes? Thank you

Battara · 14th September 2021, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by h0ll0wman

Hello Battara. Is this for cleaning the blade after etching? I also use it but I mix it with water then wipe the blade after etching. I haven't tried putting the baking soda directly on the blade. Should I let the baking soda sit for a number of minutes? Thank you

This is just for after the etching and to stop the etch ing process. You can leave it there for a couple of seconds to minutes, and then take the solution of water ad baking soda off.

h0ll0wman · 14th September 2021, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

This is just for after the etching and to stop the etch ing process. You can leave it there for a couple of seconds to minutes, and then take the solution of water ad baking soda off.

Thank you very much!

Interested Party · 16th September 2021, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

This is just for after the etching and to stop the etching process. You can leave it there for a couple of seconds to minutes, and then take the solution of water ad baking soda off.

Does any one else find that this tarnishes the finish. I have been using the Hrisoulas' method of polishing with a leather hand buff, cerium oxide, and water to make it pop again. I have noticed that I often dull my edges a bit if they are functionally sharp with the hand buff. Anyone else have this problem or a better technique to suggest? Has anyone tried a block with a pad on it under the leather buff to control it's interaction with the edge more?

mariusgmioc · 16th October 2021, 10:15 AM

For the last 10 years I have used exclusively Nital 4% for etching wootz.

Now I have run out of Nital and as it proves to be almost impossible to get in Europe, I had to switch to Ferric Chloride.

Recently, I etched the first blade with ferric chloride and got very good results, comparable with what I usually got with Nital.

Here are the steps I had followed:

1. Polished the blade up to mirror finish (grit 2500).

2. Cleaned the blade thoroughly with white spirit.

3. Etched the blade with ferric chloride (about 30%) by swapping it with cotton swabs soaked in the solution. Applied it uniformly with repeated, even and fairly quick passes to make sure the solution is evenly applied on the whole surface. I changed the swabs a few times and carried out this process for 3-4 minutes, until I got a uniform, dark patina.

4. Rinsed the blade thoroughly under flowing water.

5. Dried the blade with toilet paper and hair drier (on low heat).

6. Left the blade for 24 hours to completely dry out and continue the oxidation process.

7. Cleaned the residual golden oxidation that appeared in parts with very gentle passes of cotton swabs with Pre-Lim.

8. Cleaned the blade with white spirit and let it dry for 24 hours.

9. Applied protective layer of Renaissance Wax.

PS: Unfortunately, in my opinion instant coffee has very limited applicability. For instant coffee to work, it needs very long times, and the blade has to be immersed in the solution. This works fine for an unmounted blade not for a fully mounted knife, because you cannot fully immerse in coffee the whole knife/sword for hours without risking catastrophic damage to the hilt and mounts. And if you don't fully immerse the whole knife/sword you will end up with completely unetched spots around the front bolster/ricasso.

mariusgmioc · 19th December 2019, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mross

I know this is kinda old but I am getting ready to etch a possibly wootz blade with nital 3%. For those of you that use nital 3% what do you do afterwards? Baking soda or a acid neutralizer?

Where did you get your Nital from?

I am desperate to get some but without any success.

Kmaddock · 20th December 2019, 10:00 AM

Hi Marius
Why not make it yourself

it is just Nitric acid, Methanol/ethanol/or methelated spirits
I used work in a university chemistry department so i just made it myself, I have a thread on making it up on the forum

we conversed before on this

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=nital

if you go to your local university or perhaps secondary school and explain what you want it for you may be lucky
I can explain process to you if you can get materials
regards

Ken

mross · 20th December 2019, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Where did you get your Nital from?

I am desperate to get some but without any success.

I have not received it as yet but ordered it here;

https://etchantstore.com/

Kmaddock · 20th December 2019, 11:21 PM

Thanks for the link. That is one price mark up. I used be a buyer in a chemistry department so I know pricing.
Raw ingredients for 500 ml would cost under a dollar.

I wish I could make and supply the sword collector fraternity at cost.

Not being critical here just an observation.

Regards
Ken

mariusgmioc · 21st December 2019, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mross

I have not received it as yet but ordered it here;

https://etchantstore.com/

Thank you very much for the reply! Unfortunately, they do not serve Europe.

mross · 2nd January 2020, 06:10 PM

Sorry to recommend the Etchant store. They only sell to commercial addresses. They are worthless for individuals.

It looks more and more like it's not just them. I cannot find any sellers that will sell it unless you have the proper identification/documentation. I even checked a welding supplier and was told they could not even get it. Does anyone know something that is available that is close to it? Vinegar does not seem to do the job. Thanks.

mross · 3rd January 2020, 07:15 PM

Since Nital seems next to impossible to come by; How well does Ferric Chloride do when compared to it?

mariusgmioc · 3rd January 2020, 07:31 PM

Ferric chloride seems to be the next best alternative to Nital but
1. it is more difficult to work with as it tends to stain everything... including the sink;
2. the end result shows less contrast than with Nital;
3. it leaves the piece more prone to rust.

As with regards to the etchant store, they used to deliver to individuals until a couple of years ago. I particularly liked their 5% Nital that allowed me to dilute it down to 4% which in my oppinion delivered the best results.

Polishing thr surface to anything above 2000 grit (3000 in some cases) might be counterprodictive as the metal becomes so mirror-shiny that makes it difficult for the etchant to bite.

16th October 2021, 10:15 AM	#9
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,906	For the last 10 years I have used exclusively Nital 4% for etching wootz. Now I have run out of Nital and as it proves to be almost impossible to get in Europe, I had to switch to Ferric Chloride. Recently, I etched the first blade with ferric chloride and got very good results, comparable with what I usually got with Nital. Here are the steps I had followed: 1. Polished the blade up to mirror finish (grit 2500). 2. Cleaned the blade thoroughly with white spirit. 3. Etched the blade with ferric chloride (about 30%) by swapping it with cotton swabs soaked in the solution. Applied it uniformly with repeated, even and fairly quick passes to make sure the solution is evenly applied on the whole surface. I changed the swabs a few times and carried out this process for 3-4 minutes, until I got a uniform, dark patina. 4. Rinsed the blade thoroughly under flowing water. 5. Dried the blade with toilet paper and hair drier (on low heat). 6. Left the blade for 24 hours to completely dry out and continue the oxidation process. 7. Cleaned the residual golden oxidation that appeared in parts with very gentle passes of cotton swabs with Pre-Lim. 8. Cleaned the blade with white spirit and let it dry for 24 hours. 9. Applied protective layer of Renaissance Wax. PS: Unfortunately, in my opinion instant coffee has very limited applicability. For instant coffee to work, it needs very long times, and the blade has to be immersed in the solution. This works fine for an unmounted blade not for a fully mounted knife, because you cannot fully immerse in coffee the whole knife/sword for hours without risking catastrophic damage to the hilt and mounts. And if you don't fully immerse the whole knife/sword you will end up with completely unetched spots around the front bolster/ricasso. Last edited by mariusgmioc; 16th October 2021 at 07:22 PM.

2nd January 2020, 06:10 PM	#15
mross Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 478	Sorry to recommend the Etchant store. They only sell to commercial addresses. They are worthless for individuals. It looks more and more like it's not just them. I cannot find any sellers that will sell it unless you have the proper identification/documentation. I even checked a welding supplier and was told they could not even get it. Does anyone know something that is available that is close to it? Vinegar does not seem to do the job. Thanks. Last edited by mross; 3rd January 2020 at 04:41 PM.

18th December 2019, 03:43 PM	#1
mross Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 478	I know this is kinda old but I am getting ready to etch a possibly wootz blade with nital 3%. For those of you that use nital 3% what do you do afterwards? Baking soda or a acid neutralizer?

18th December 2019, 04:51 PM	#2
Kmaddock Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Ireland Posts: 543	I use baking soda and never had any issues at all best of luck ken

18th December 2019, 10:18 PM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,270	Same here. Baking soda directly on the blade after you rinse it off in water.

19th December 2019, 04:10 PM	#4
mross Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 478	Thanks. I'll take pictures and post one way or another.

20th December 2019, 10:00 AM	#11
Kmaddock Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Ireland Posts: 543	Hi Marius Why not make it yourself it is just Nitric acid, Methanol/ethanol/or methelated spirits I used work in a university chemistry department so i just made it myself, I have a thread on making it up on the forum we conversed before on this http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=nital if you go to your local university or perhaps secondary school and explain what you want it for you may be lucky I can explain process to you if you can get materials regards Ken

20th December 2019, 11:21 PM	#13
Kmaddock Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Ireland Posts: 543	Thanks for the link. That is one price mark up. I used be a buyer in a chemistry department so I know pricing. Raw ingredients for 500 ml would cost under a dollar. I wish I could make and supply the sword collector fraternity at cost. Not being critical here just an observation. Regards Ken

3rd January 2020, 07:15 PM	#16
mross Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 478	Since Nital seems next to impossible to come by; How well does Ferric Chloride do when compared to it?

3rd January 2020, 07:31 PM	#17
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,906	Ferric chloride seems to be the next best alternative to Nital but 1. it is more difficult to work with as it tends to stain everything... including the sink; 2. the end result shows less contrast than with Nital; 3. it leaves the piece more prone to rust. As with regards to the etchant store, they used to deliver to individuals until a couple of years ago. I particularly liked their 5% Nital that allowed me to dilute it down to 4% which in my oppinion delivered the best results. Polishing thr surface to anything above 2000 grit (3000 in some cases) might be counterprodictive as the metal becomes so mirror-shiny that makes it difficult for the etchant to bite.