Weapons for animals

[kronckew]

Hunting and guard dogs frequently had (and still do) have wide leather collars with spikes to prevent other predators from attacking their vulnerable necks. Full body armour is also used for wild boar hunting, usually not usually made from maille or plate, but from more modern materials, kevlar and sections of steel belted tire are used. Boar tusks are really nasty and uppers and lowers rub against each other to sharpen them into bone razors. The boars of course object strenuously to being annoyed.

The use of the internal spike 'restraint' collar that Bob A shows is despicable and a sign of someone who should not be allowed to own a dog. They can if not very loose, do irreparable damage physically and mentally. Even loose, they are designed to hurt. There are much better and more humane anti-pull collars and harnesses available. Bob's at least has the secondary loop that restricts how far the collar will tighten, some do not and are more like a noose.

[A. G. Maisey]

I have only now noticed this thread, and I do regret not committing a post to it earlier.

I do not want to comment on the philosophy of animal combat, but I do most sincerely suggest that before condemning this out of hand, that an objective opinion based upon the mores of the time and society concerned should be attempted. Admittedly, objectivity in matters such as this do seem to be particularly difficult for many people.

However, in respect of cock fighting in Bali and Jawa, I would like to draw attention to the fact of the religious foundations of this practice. I had thought that it was well known that cock fighting in Bali was predominantly religious in nature, but apparently I was wrong about this.

Indonesia banned cock fights in about 1980, except for religious purposes in Bali, because it was it was recognised that the cock fight was a part of religious ritual.

Cock fights also continue in rural Jawa, and although not validated by religion, the cultural reason is pretty much the same, that is, the spilling of blood to get rid of evil spirits.

This link will take you to a summary of the nature of the cock fight in Bali. The writer is Jonathon Copeland, a British lawyer, the information source is Ibu Murni, a recognised authority on Balinese culture and society:-

https://www.murnis.com/culture/balinese-cockfights/

[DaveF]

I've just come across this thread and offer a couple of photos of modern passive weapon dog collars from Turkey.

The first example (just like the medieval Hungarian example from ALEX) is from a village blacksmith in Elmali, in the mountains of South West Turkey in 2008.

The second photo is of a collar bought from a blacksmith in the wonderful bazaar in Urfa, just north of the Syrian border in South East Turkey in 2013.

Both blacksmiths said the collars were for use by dogs that protected herds of goats or sheep from wolf attacks. Having recently dropped the second example onto my wrist from a very small height I can painfully confirm its capacity to do damage!

[gp]

sickening to show this pics and justify these items

as for " religious foundations": these can also be applied to the inquisition, burning of witches, abuse of women and children ....very bright thinking I would say. Amin Maalouf wrote a nice book about the crusaders with regards to this topic ; a book I can highly recommend you all !

also "not be judgemental of the beliefs, traditions and conventions of cultures other than our own"
would imply that I should not comment on the guillotine or Zyklon B if I take it literally as these were not part of my own culture beliefs, traditions and conventions ...? Come on!

@ mods :

I rather have a discussion about a fantasy weapon than animal cruelty.'
Just from a moral perspective and taste

[DaveF]

Originally Posted by gp

sickening to show this pics and justify these items

as for " religious foundations": these can also be applied to the inquisition, burning of witches, abuse of women and children ....very bright thinking I would say. Amin Maalouf wrote a nice book about the crusaders with regards to this topic ; a book I can highly recommend you all !

also "not be judgemental of the beliefs, traditions and conventions of cultures other than our own"
would imply that I should not comment on the guillotine or Zyklon B if I take it literally as these were not part of my own culture beliefs, traditions and conventions ...? Come on!

@ mods :

I rather have a discussion about a fantasy weapon than animal cruelty.'
Just from a moral perspective and taste

It's a bit of a leap from collars used to stop working dogs having their throats ripped out to Zyclon B.

[gp]

Originally Posted by DaveF

It's a bit of a leap from collars used to stop working dogs having their throats ripped out to Zyclon B.

It is the principle to use religion and culture to justify something immoral I wanted to address.

And yes, I might have put it a little harsh but guess a wake up call was needed here :

the sound of silence ( a nice song nevertheless) was the general tune here...especially if you look at the timeline of this topic !

I am sorry but you still do not get it that I wanted to address the issue that if you are not part of a certain culture , one should not speak.Which is clearly written and not by me ...

Talking dogs: I used to have a bouvier de flanders for 14 years and my wife a sarplaninac... these dogs never needed a collar as they were bred for that purpose: to protect. Just like my in law with a cane corso....
I trained my bouvier and the cane as protection / guard dog : no collar needed.
That is a silly defence as it would not save a dog against several wolves...

So my point is that culture is and remains indeed a silly excuse, hence the idiot Zyklon B example which you did not get it that I addressed the “excuse” that if you do not belong to the culture, in this case of the ones who used Zyklon B, you are not entitled to address it if I follow an explanation above by the letter.....sorry to repeat myself but please read previous comments carefully .

I am sorry and think it sad that you did not spend a single word on this wrong use of animals and the wrong justification, unless you agree ... which ( not spending a single word on animal misuse) I accept in the latter case.
.
But than again Kant tells use one can not dispute about taste in his Aesthetic Judgment...so better I let it rest

Nevertheless I wish you a nice day and stay healthy !


BR
Gunar

[Ian]

Time out on this one guys. This is a contentious old thread, with feelings running deep, and it has been considered before for deletion. Past experience on similar issues indicates spirited discussion can turn nasty quickly. Let's take a break!