Indian Katar ,tourist maybe ?

Henk · 8th December 2019, 02:43 PM

I think you bought yourself a very nice katar. Congrats on this one.
I don't think this is for the tourist market. If you would etch it i wouldn't be surprised it shows wootz.
Lets wait what the more knowledgeable members will say about this, in my eyes, beauty.

mahratt · 8th December 2019, 03:09 PM

Good katar. My congratulations.
It's just that katars of this form are quite common.

Kubur · 8th December 2019, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mahratt

Good katar. My congratulations.
It's just that katars of this form are quite common.

I agree but the scabbard is very nice and if it's a tourist piece i will buy it!

ariel · 8th December 2019, 05:29 PM

Per Elgood, katars in the 19th century were made in quantities, but for tourist/ souvenir purposes only. The era of face-to-face battles was over......
Everybody got a proverbial Maxim gun.

mahratt · 8th December 2019, 05:39 PM

chiefheadknocker, I think no one can say for sure whether your katar was made before 1857 (then it could be used for battle), or it was made in the late 19th century as an item for tourists.

Kubur · 8th December 2019, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mahratt

chiefheadknocker, I think no one can say for sure whether your katar was made before 1857 (then it could be used for battle), or it was made in the late 19th century as an item for tourists.

Not only that
but if you remove all the weapons not used in battle, and classify them in tourist items then you will have to remove 70% if not more of the weapons from ethno forum...

ariel · 8th December 2019, 10:11 PM

Kubur,
You are partially correct: the role of bladed weapons shrank markedly with the introduction of firearms.
But short-bladed weapons suffered the biggest blow. Swords/ sabers were still used on the battlefield for a long while, although more and more as rank weapons. But Cossack cavalry units were still active as recently as WW2.

Military tactics shifted from close quarter melee to artillery bombardment. Perhaps, the only regulation short-bladed weapon left in international arsenals were bayonets. Of the ethnic “knives” the only truly survived one that comes to mind is Kukri. The more primitive societies kept them longer, the ones striving to modernity got rid of them earlier. Thus, to put a defined date of the “Judgement Day” for short-bladed weapons ( 1857? 1865? etc)is naive to put it mildly, but 19- early 20 century is a a good approximation if we speak of the world-wide military history.

Katar was a quintessential melee weapon, and in Greater India it likely went the way of Dodo together with bichwa, khanjarli and Bagh-nakh. All of them continued their existence as exotic souvenirs often marked and sold as antiques.

And you are likely correct: by the end of the 19 century more than 90% of the weapons we are discussing here ceased to exist as battlefield implements. They were so rare and unneeded for regular use, that the most widely used “weapon” during WWI trench melees was... a shovel.

Jens Nordlunde · 8th December 2019, 03:34 PM

If it is a tourist katar, then it is an old tourist katar, and it could, maybe, be from Bundi.
You write that it is 43 cm, but how long is the blade?
A width between the side guards of 6.5 cm is narrow, but not unusual.
Please show what the side guards look like, and at the same time give us a close up of the hilt base and the cross bars. Two animals are shown at the hilt base, what are they? They could be fish, but are they?

chiefheadknocker · 8th December 2019, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

If it is a tourist katar, then it is an old tourist katar, and it could, maybe, be from Bundi.
You write that it is 43 cm, but how long is the blade?
A width between the side guards of 6.5 cm is narrow, but not unusual.
Please show what the side guards look like, and at the same time give us a close up of the hilt base and the cross bars. Two animals are shown at the hilt base, what are they? They could be fish, but are they?

Thanks for your reply ,the blade is 25 cm long ,im not sure what animals on the hilt , remind me of wild boar ? ive attached a couple more pics

8th December 2019, 10:11 PM	#7
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Kubur, You are partially correct: the role of bladed weapons shrank markedly with the introduction of firearms. But short-bladed weapons suffered the biggest blow. Swords/ sabers were still used on the battlefield for a long while, although more and more as rank weapons. But Cossack cavalry units were still active as recently as WW2. Military tactics shifted from close quarter melee to artillery bombardment. Perhaps, the only regulation short-bladed weapon left in international arsenals were bayonets. Of the ethnic “knives” the only truly survived one that comes to mind is Kukri. The more primitive societies kept them longer, the ones striving to modernity got rid of them earlier. Thus, to put a defined date of the “Judgement Day” for short-bladed weapons ( 1857? 1865? etc)is naive to put it mildly, but 19- early 20 century is a a good approximation if we speak of the world-wide military history. Katar was a quintessential melee weapon, and in Greater India it likely went the way of Dodo together with bichwa, khanjarli and Bagh-nakh. All of them continued their existence as exotic souvenirs often marked and sold as antiques. And you are likely correct: by the end of the 19 century more than 90% of the weapons we are discussing here ceased to exist as battlefield implements. They were so rare and unneeded for regular use, that the most widely used “weapon” during WWI trench melees was... a shovel. Last edited by ariel; 8th December 2019 at 10:24 PM.

8th December 2019, 02:43 PM	#1
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	I think you bought yourself a very nice katar. Congrats on this one. I don't think this is for the tourist market. If you would etch it i wouldn't be surprised it shows wootz. Lets wait what the more knowledgeable members will say about this, in my eyes, beauty.

8th December 2019, 03:09 PM	#2
mahratt Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Russia Posts: 1,042	Good katar. My congratulations. It's just that katars of this form are quite common.

8th December 2019, 05:29 PM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Per Elgood, katars in the 19th century were made in quantities, but for tourist/ souvenir purposes only. The era of face-to-face battles was over...... Everybody got a proverbial Maxim gun.

8th December 2019, 05:39 PM	#5
mahratt Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Russia Posts: 1,042	chiefheadknocker, I think no one can say for sure whether your katar was made before 1857 (then it could be used for battle), or it was made in the late 19th century as an item for tourists.

8th December 2019, 03:34 PM	#8
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	If it is a tourist katar, then it is an old tourist katar, and it could, maybe, be from Bundi. You write that it is 43 cm, but how long is the blade? A width between the side guards of 6.5 cm is narrow, but not unusual. Please show what the side guards look like, and at the same time give us a close up of the hilt base and the cross bars. Two animals are shown at the hilt base, what are they? They could be fish, but are they?