Opinions about this Gunong

Ian · 9th October 2019, 09:53 PM

Hi again Stefan:

Nice cache of Maranao weapons that you came across. They are all of the same general vintage, second half of the 20th C, which fits with the time the original collector was in the Philippines. Do you happen to know where that individual purchased them? I would not be surprised if they came from Zamboanga, although recent Maranao weapons can be found in Manila's antique shops as well.

Ian.

Sajen · 10th October 2019, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

They are all of the same general vintage, second half of the 20th C, which fits with the time the original collector was in the Philippines.

Hi Ian,

While I agree with you in general I have to disagree when it comes to the kris blade, the overall style and the separate gangya I personally would place at the end of 19th to very early 20th century. I guess that an antique blade with rotted fittings get a new dress at the time of the mid to second half of the 20th, the current hilt and scabbard are typical for this time.
I know this practise from Indonesia, for example you can find very old blades in rather new tourist fittings (Bali).
I am nearly sure that we see an antique blade here.

Regards,
Detlef

Sajen · 10th October 2019, 07:34 PM

The best I am able to manage!

Battara · 10th October 2019, 08:30 PM

Oh I agree that the blade is old and around the time you suggest, Sajen. I'm with Ian when it comes to everything else about the kris. And yes you are also right in that several of these old blades have new "clothes" on them.

Ian · 12th October 2019, 11:03 PM

Hi Setlef:

I agree that the kris blade is older and rehilted with a new scabbard, something we see quite a lot with Moro blades. I was really referring to when the present pieces were assembled. The dress on these is very much late 20th C. and in a distinctive style.

Battara · 13th October 2019, 04:07 AM

From what I can see of the pictures, I still say recent work is from Marawi in Maranao country.

I'll admit though, better pictures would help make a better determination.

Gavin Nugent · 16th October 2019, 03:20 AM

I'm curious about the Philippine weapons with these design elements.

Most aspersions are simply cast that these are modern and by my own personal definition of "modern", I tend to somewhat agree but by what "age" definition is "modern" or "recent" when cast without a date in time being noted?

I seem to recall that several weapons of this manufacture and design elements are found in a museum in Hawaii, reputed to have been political gifts circa WWII/immediately post WWII. If the provenance is indeed correct, 70+ years is getting on and not too far in to the future, such loose dating may be quite misleading

10th October 2019, 07:34 PM	#3
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,164	The best I am able to manage! Attached Images

9th October 2019, 09:53 PM	#1
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,361	Hi again Stefan: Nice cache of Maranao weapons that you came across. They are all of the same general vintage, second half of the 20th C, which fits with the time the original collector was in the Philippines. Do you happen to know where that individual purchased them? I would not be surprised if they came from Zamboanga, although recent Maranao weapons can be found in Manila's antique shops as well. Ian.

10th October 2019, 08:30 PM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,270	Oh I agree that the blade is old and around the time you suggest, Sajen. I'm with Ian when it comes to everything else about the kris. And yes you are also right in that several of these old blades have new "clothes" on them.

12th October 2019, 11:03 PM	#5
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,361	Hi Setlef: I agree that the kris blade is older and rehilted with a new scabbard, something we see quite a lot with Moro blades. I was really referring to when the present pieces were assembled. The dress on these is very much late 20th C. and in a distinctive style.

13th October 2019, 04:07 AM	#6
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,270	From what I can see of the pictures, I still say recent work is from Marawi in Maranao country. I'll admit though, better pictures would help make a better determination.

16th October 2019, 03:20 AM	#7
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	I'm curious about the Philippine weapons with these design elements. Most aspersions are simply cast that these are modern and by my own personal definition of "modern", I tend to somewhat agree but by what "age" definition is "modern" or "recent" when cast without a date in time being noted? I seem to recall that several weapons of this manufacture and design elements are found in a museum in Hawaii, reputed to have been political gifts circa WWII/immediately post WWII. If the provenance is indeed correct, 70+ years is getting on and not too far in to the future, such loose dating may be quite misleading