Old Khyber

[Jim McDougall]

Dima thank you for this information and clarification! I truly did not know of these Khyber swords being made in India, but I can understand that there must have been Indian craftsmen in Afghan regions who might make them.
As you well note, the idea of these often very large bladed Khyber swords being made in Persia seems very unlikely, just as the idea of Persian craftsmen in Afghanistan seems remote.

It seems well established of course that artisans of regions often move to other areas, and in doing so take their skills and styling character with them of course. It makes sense that obviously these styles, techniques and character would in degree become melded together in the examples they produced.

I think the objective of recognizing the possibility of this particular Khyber being one of these hybrids, or accounting for its unusual decoration is well at hand here. As far as I can see however, is that this example in the original post is of the commonly seen versions produced in the typical manner in Khyber regions, rather than one produced in these other areas noted.

We return to the very crudely applied acid etched decoration. We know that this technique was used in Persia, and by its craftsmen. It is possible that this technique, which became it seems more widely practiced in latter part of 19th c. (thinking of the Sudanese thuluth case) may have been carried into many regions by craftsmen relocating.

I think its crudely applied character of the decoration here, which has been the primary point of contention, pretty much renders the possibility of being done by a skilled craftsman unlikely, particularly Persian. The likelihood of the scenario proposed by Ed, a copied theme added by a tribal artisan representing local traditions or events is far more plausible.

[ariel]

Update:
One of the " translators" sent me a message: this is written in ancient variant of Farsi, but the quality of deep etching is very poor, the letters flow into each other.
She could translate only a small fragment:" ...the king gave advice to his son..."
She is taking it to her parents ; perhaps, they might be more successful, but I doubt more and more that translation may give us any specific information: Persians were fond of general statements of literary origin inscribed on their blades. I have a Khyber with rhino handle and 4 rivets (2-1-1); the upper 2 used to be "big" , but the washers were lost. It is inscribed in old Persian with a quote from Sa'adi's " Golestan ( 13 century). Central Asia ( Bukhara, Khiva, Samarkand)? Northern Afghanistan? Iran proper?

So, one thing is clear: the etching was made by a Farsi-speaking person. Whether he was an itinerant master from Iran or a Persianized Afghani is unclear. In any case, it may explain the human figure and ,- perhaps,- the date of 1850 in Persian calendar Jalali.

[mariusgmioc]

Originally Posted by ariel

So, one thing is clear: the etching was made by a Farsi-speaking person. Whether he was an itinerant master from Iran or a Persianized Afghani is unclear. In any case, it may explain the human figure and ,- perhaps,- the date of 1850 in Persian calendar Jalali.

I beg to differ! Nothing is clear. The one who made the etching could have been simply copying it 1:1 from somewhere else.

[Jim McDougall]

I think this is a strong case, again, for this weapon bearing a commemorative inscription. While the original text or example of the wording being copied was possibly (or more likely) to have been applied by someone not necessarily fluent or even familiar with the Farsi language, it does suggest the intent.
The individual applying the wording to the host weapon, by the crude character of the motif, certainly was not a master craftsman of Persia or anywhere for that matter. However, it seems a sincere attempt to portray a traditional or highly held wording of Farsi, as noted.

Inscriptions in these languages and phrases surely have been used on other Khyber's of course, but the use of acid etching is unusual as we have discussed.

[ariel]

Rephrasing my conclusion: the use of Farsi defines the etcher and/ or the owner as belonging to Persianized Afghani tribe.

Marius: is that better?

[ariel]

OK, final summary.
1. We have already established that the sword in question is an Afghani khyber.
2. It has a deep etching in Farsi, and the dating in Jalali puts it somewhere in the third quarter of 19th century.
The remaining questions were:
a). Meaning of the inscription
b). Uncertainty whether Persian technique of deep etching was used on Afghani swords.

Recent info:
Parents of my other informer ( both former professors of Persian literature and linguistics respectively) were able to read only part of the inscription due to imperfections of the etching technique. It is in ancient Farsi.
Not unexpectedly, just like in my other khyber ( inscription was done using gold wire unlay and easily readable), this is just an unrelated verse.



On the khyber in question is a quote from Sa'adi's Golestan.
"A king placed his son in a school,
Putting in his lap a silver tablet
Wrote on it in golden letters:
The hard work of a teacher is better than the love of a father."

As expected, nothing about the sword itself, just some morality verse.

As to the technique, I am attaching pics of an Afghani pseudo-shashka with deep etching on both sides along the entire length of the blade. Did not even ask to translate it: everybody is free to choose his favourite Sa'adi's verse:-)
But the bottom line, deep etching can be found on other examples of typical Afghani weapons. They might be infrequent, but they do exist.

So, my conclusion: Afghani Khyber mid-late 19th century, with deep-etching decoration in Farsi, quoting almost sacred Farsi poetry, intended for a Persianized Afghani.

[mahratt]

In the early 20th century, acid etching can see on Afghan blades made for the army. But! This acid etching is very different from what we see on the discussed Khyber knife. So a this shashka with acid etching made for the army is not a correct example.