What can you tell me about this sword?

[erikmarko]

Oh so just because it is very unlikely that it would be real, it's considered fake? Or can you guys actually see signs of fake symbols/mass production or man made patina/pitting/corrosion? Can someone point out these signs to me?

[mahratt]

Originally Posted by erikmarko

Oh so just because it is very unlikely that it would be real, it's considered fake? Or can you guys actually see signs of fake symbols/mass production or man made patina/pitting/corrosion? Can someone point out these signs to me?

Hello, erikmarko

Yesterday my friend came to me - a collector of Caucasian and Russian weapons. He looked at the photo and said that he was 90% sure (you can be 100% sure only when the item is in your hands) that this is an old shashka for the late 19th – early 20th century. He believes that the shashka belonged to an officer of the Russian Empire, so the Emperor’s monogram on the hilt is normal. A blade with an engraving of low quality, according to my friend, was simply made not in a large well-known weapon manufacturing center (such as Kubachi), but somewhere in the periphery.
For me, a good argument that your shashka is genuine was the words of my friend that he was ready to buy it from you

[David R]

Originally Posted by mahratt

Hello, erikmarko

Yesterday my friend came to me - a collector of Caucasian and Russian weapons. He looked at the photo and said that he was 90% sure (you can be 100% sure only when the item is in your hands) that this is an old shashka for the late 19th – early 20th century. He believes that the shashka belonged to an officer of the Russian Empire, so the Emperor’s monogram on the hilt is normal. A blade with an engraving of low quality, according to my friend, was simply made not in a large well-known weapon manufacturing center (such as Kubachi), but somewhere in the periphery.
For me, a good argument that your shashka is genuine was the words of my friend that he was ready to buy it from you

A good point about the need to see it in hand to be certain. To me the clincher is the quality of the silver-work, repousse and niello rather than poor filigree.... Do my eyes deceive me, or is that a pattern welded blade?

[mahratt]

Originally Posted by David R

A good point about the need to see it in hand to be certain. To me the clincher is the quality of the silver-work, repousse and niello rather than poor filigree.... Do my eyes deceive me, or is that a pattern welded blade?

I looked at the photo again more carefully. I think this is an imitation of a pattern welded blade. By the way, this, in my opinion, once again may indicate that this is an authentic shashka.

[Ren Ren]

Miracles sometimes happen and this cannot be denied.
In this case, I must admit that in the hands of Eric was a truly rare shashka in excellent condition.

[Ren Ren]

Originally Posted by mahratt

I think this is an imitation of a pattern welded blade.

I agree, this is an imitation of a welded pattern.

[erikmarko]

Wow, so the Russian collector of weapons says that it's most likely authentic shashka. Now can you guys tell me if this weapon would have been used in fights or just for show. Can someone tell me what the meaning of the moon/sun/stars and the clouds I suppose running along the blade is? And what does the number 149 mean?

Thanks

[Ren Ren]

Originally Posted by erikmarko

Can someone tell me what the meaning of the moon/sun/stars and the clouds I suppose running along the blade is? And what does the number 149 mean?

Thanks

These symbols mean that the blade is a rough Caucasian copy of the Hungarian and German blades of the XVII - early XVIII centuries Such blades were highly valued and actively copied by local craftsmen in the late XIX - early XX centuries.

[sfenoid13]

This is a reproduction(saying it is “fake” makes no sense). It is a replica basically. The different parts and patina on the sword do not match. The patina is not natural and those putting sand rust can be reproduced. Since the handle is not a horn or another natural material it’s easy to tell it’s newly made. It is higher quality reproduction but nonetheless newly made. If you have been around in this business for , let’s say 5 years, you could easily tell this I. The first minute of looking at it. My 2 cents

[erikmarko]

Sfenoid, I don't think you got the memo. The Russian collection that deals in this sort of weapons has a different opinion. You seem to be 100% convinced that it's a "reproduction" which in itself is a red flag. Btw wouldn't a "reproduction" try to copy a brand new/original look of something? If this thing was distressed to look old and original I would consider it "fake".

[Ian]

An interesting discussion here on what is old and what is reproduction, with some strong arguments each way. What it tells me is that I should be very wary of shashka that are said to be old and of high quality. These are not swords I have researched or own, but the recent surge of reproductions has diminished my appetite for acquiring any.

I'm not coming down on either side of the discussion, but what interests me is how experienced collectors can be strongly divergent in their views. Caveat emptor indeed!