Need opinions about this dagger

Hombre · 1st September 2019, 09:40 AM

Should really appreciate opinions about this dagger....
Lenght ca 25 cm.... No sheath...
Sorry for the pictures.... The only ones I got for the moment....

Best,
Stefan

Sajen · 1st September 2019, 04:06 PM

Persian khanjar?

Others like Kubur will be able to tell you more. When it's Persian the possibility is high that it could be a wootz blade. Curious what others will tell you.

Regards,
Detlef

Edster · 1st September 2019, 05:01 PM

Stefan,

If the grip is ebony or African Black Wood I would offer that it is perhaps of Sudanese Rashaida Arab origin. The Rashaida came to Sudan in the early 19thC and now live including around Kassala. ABW is a common wood for knife handles there. The style is similar to Kassala arm daggers, but may also have an Arab twist. Also, the blade is better than most local products. Suggest Arab/Yemeni blade with Eastern Sudan made grip, mid-19th to early 20th C.

This could be really off-base, but intuition called.
Regards,
Ed

Sajen · 1st September 2019, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edster

If the grip is ebony or African Black Wood I would offer that it is perhaps of Sudanese Rashaida Arab origin.

To my eyes look the handle made from iron!?

Edster · 1st September 2019, 05:28 PM

It does sort of look like iron, nice patina.

ariel · 1st September 2019, 06:28 PM

Ottoman?
They liked all-iron.

Battara · 1st September 2019, 07:48 PM

Yes I agree that this is iron or more likely steel. Persian is my guess with the "I" form of hilt.

I also wonder if this is later Qajar period, and if so, might not be wootz after all. Might have originally had some silver koftgari one the hilt and/or blade, and might even be 20th century.

Kubur · 1st September 2019, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Persian khanjar?

Others like Kubur will be able to tell you more. When it's Persian the possibility is high that it could be a wootz blade. Curious what others will tell you.

Regards,
Detlef

Thank you, but Kubur is not very good with Indian weapons.
Some will say Indo Persian... but it's Indian.
Of course you can see the Persian influence in the steel khanjar style hilt.
These daggers are very common and very very late 19th if not 20th century.
To me they were more panoplie decorative things but as I said you will have more precise answers from specialists.

motan · 2nd September 2019, 12:03 PM

Hi,
I am also not an expert on Indo-Persian weapons, but this looks like a Persian Khanjar from late Qajar period (around 1900). Typical all-steel construction with a hollow hilt. Very similar items were made in Damascus as well, but the style of decoration is quite different.
Very little chance of wootz blade because they are almost non-existent in this type. Some are engraved with plants, animal and humans, particularly hunting scenes, but no wootz.

thinreadline · 2nd September 2019, 01:34 PM

Almost certainly Indian ... I have one with the same hilt but straight blade . It had the swollen 'mail piercing' tip .

Kubur · 2nd September 2019, 04:23 PM

Use the key words Indian jambiya
You will find plenty... some of them are 19th c may be earlier...

Hombre · 2nd September 2019, 09:20 PM

Thank you so very much guys for you opinions. I really appreciate it.
As soon as I have it in my hands I will take more pictures of it and post it here.

Best,
Stefan

sfenoid13 · 3rd September 2019, 02:41 AM

It’s clearly Persian.

mariusgmioc · 3rd September 2019, 05:58 AM

While the general shape and the hilt appear to be Persian, typical Persian khanjars have the signature central rib, which this one does not.
However, blades of diamond cross-section like this one are very common with the Kurdish people. Ad let us not forget that large portions of the areas inhabited by Kurdish people were (some still are) part of Persia.
So, my oppinion is that it is a Persian inspired Kurdish khanjar.

Mercenary · 3rd September 2019, 05:29 PM

Rajasthani jambia. I met them there.
Kubur - !

mahratt · 3rd September 2019, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercenary

Rajasthani jambia. I met them there.
Kubur - !

I agree. It looks like an indian jambia. And looking at what remains of koftgari, I think it’s very late 19th century

Hombre · 11th September 2019, 08:21 AM

Have just been packing it up....
Handle is iron....
More pictures will come when the light is better.... Rainy day here....

Best,
Stefan

ariel · 11th September 2019, 03:54 PM

Well....

Persia, Arab/Yemeni blade with Eastern Sudan made grip, Ottoman, Rajastan, just India in general, Kurdish....

Any other countries on the map?

:-)

mariusgmioc · 11th September 2019, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hombre

Have just been packing it up....
Handle is iron....
More pictures will come when the light is better.... Rainy day here....

Best,
Stefan

I agree with the oppinion it is Rajastani.

1st September 2019, 09:40 AM	#1
Hombre Member Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 232	Need opinions about this dagger Should really appreciate opinions about this dagger.... Lenght ca 25 cm.... No sheath... Sorry for the pictures.... The only ones I got for the moment.... Best, Stefan Attached Images

2nd September 2019, 01:34 PM	#10
thinreadline Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Wirral Posts: 1,204	Almost certainly Indian ... I have one with the same hilt but straight blade . It had the swollen 'mail piercing' tip . Attached Images

2nd September 2019, 04:23 PM	#11
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Use the key words Indian jambiya You will find plenty... some of them are 19th c may be earlier... Attached Images

3rd September 2019, 02:41 AM	#13
sfenoid13 Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 134	It’s clearly Persian. Last edited by sfenoid13; 3rd September 2019 at 02:55 AM.

11th September 2019, 08:21 AM	#17
Hombre Member Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 232	Have just been packing it up.... Handle is iron.... More pictures will come when the light is better.... Rainy day here.... Best, Stefan Attached Images

1st September 2019, 04:06 PM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,195	Persian khanjar? Others like Kubur will be able to tell you more. When it's Persian the possibility is high that it could be a wootz blade. Curious what others will tell you. Regards, Detlef

1st September 2019, 05:01 PM	#3
Edster Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 415	Stefan, If the grip is ebony or African Black Wood I would offer that it is perhaps of Sudanese Rashaida Arab origin. The Rashaida came to Sudan in the early 19thC and now live including around Kassala. ABW is a common wood for knife handles there. The style is similar to Kassala arm daggers, but may also have an Arab twist. Also, the blade is better than most local products. Suggest Arab/Yemeni blade with Eastern Sudan made grip, mid-19th to early 20th C. This could be really off-base, but intuition called. Regards, Ed

1st September 2019, 05:28 PM	#5
Edster Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 415	It does sort of look like iron, nice patina.

1st September 2019, 06:28 PM	#6
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Ottoman? They liked all-iron.

1st September 2019, 07:48 PM	#7
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	Yes I agree that this is iron or more likely steel. Persian is my guess with the "I" form of hilt. I also wonder if this is later Qajar period, and if so, might not be wootz after all. Might have originally had some silver koftgari one the hilt and/or blade, and might even be 20th century.

2nd September 2019, 12:03 PM	#9
motan Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Jerusalem Posts: 274	Hi, I am also not an expert on Indo-Persian weapons, but this looks like a Persian Khanjar from late Qajar period (around 1900). Typical all-steel construction with a hollow hilt. Very similar items were made in Damascus as well, but the style of decoration is quite different. Very little chance of wootz blade because they are almost non-existent in this type. Some are engraved with plants, animal and humans, particularly hunting scenes, but no wootz.

2nd September 2019, 09:20 PM	#12
Hombre Member Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 232	Thank you so very much guys for you opinions. I really appreciate it. As soon as I have it in my hands I will take more pictures of it and post it here. Best, Stefan

3rd September 2019, 05:58 AM	#14
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,911	While the general shape and the hilt appear to be Persian, typical Persian khanjars have the signature central rib, which this one does not. However, blades of diamond cross-section like this one are very common with the Kurdish people. Ad let us not forget that large portions of the areas inhabited by Kurdish people were (some still are) part of Persia. So, my oppinion is that it is a Persian inspired Kurdish khanjar.

3rd September 2019, 05:29 PM	#15
Mercenary Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 428	Rajasthani jambia. I met them there. Kubur - !

11th September 2019, 03:54 PM	#18
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Well.... Persia, Arab/Yemeni blade with Eastern Sudan made grip, Ottoman, Rajastan, just India in general, Kurdish.... Any other countries on the map? :-)