Frontier Arithmetic: The Afghan Jezail

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Hi Jim,
Hope you have somewhere suitable to mount your Jezail in the "Bookmobile"!. Nice example by the way.....
Yes as Kubur says, Rick will no doubt be able to comment on the genuineness of the lock but if you can post a pic of the inside of the lock it will give a clearer idea of origin. Also does the touch hole line up with the bottom of the pan?
I have a similar Jezail which, though probably functional in terms of shooting, appears as if it could be, though not definitely, made for tourists, as it is also (like yours), prolificly decorated with MOP.
Pics of a couple of my Jezails.
Not to digress from the Jezail, there is another gun of similar shape which is also attributed to Afghanistan, though it's origins are more Sindhi/Baluchistan. It must be remembered that when we today discuss Afghani guns, that the borders have been many times redrawn since colonial days, and what was once part of Afghanistan is now part of Pakistan.
A couple of pics of these guns attached also.
Stu

That picture of the tribals with guns has at its centre Khuda Dad Khan of Kalat arguably the most murderous butcher that ever stalked the earth...

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

That picture of the tribals with guns has at its centre Khuda Dad Khan of Kalat arguably the most murderous butcher that ever stalked the earth...

Warriors for sure

but
most murderous butcher that ever stalked the earth...

Is true or was it a British colonialist propaganda???

like the stories about the fuzzy fuzzy in Sudan or the Zulu in South Africa

more your ennemies look dangerous more your victories look greater...

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Kubur

Warriors for sure

but
most murderous butcher that ever stalked the earth...

Is true or was it a British colonialist propaganda???

like the stories about the fuzzy fuzzy in Sudan or the Zulu in South Africa

more your ennemies look dangerous more your victories look greater...

Please see http://www.travelbooksonline.com/asi...age1_1000.html

Well arguably... In a brilliant travelog I read he appears from about page 54 where he is described as Quote" His Highness Mir Khudadad, Khan of Kelat, is about sixty years old. He would be tall were it not for a decided stoop, which, together with a toothless lower jaw, gives him the appearance of being considerably more than his age. His complexion is very dark, even for a Baluch, and he wears a rusty black beard and moustaches, presumably dyed, from the streaks of red and white that run through them, and long, coarse pepper-and-salt locks streaming far below his shoulders. His personal appearance gave me anything but a favourable impression. The Khan has a scowling expression, keen, piercing black eyes, and a sharp hooked nose that reminded one forcibly of Cruikshank's picture of Fagin the Jew in "Oliver Twist." Unquote.

His story goes...ASLAMO ALAIKOOM. I'M MIR KHUDADAD KHAN. I'M THE KHAN OF KALAT. I WAS THE LAST KHAN TO HAVE ANY REAL AUTHORITY. I ASCENDED TO THE THRONE, IN 1857, WHEN I WAS A MERE BOY OF 10 ( CORRECTION: was 17). THOSE WERE TROUBLED TIMES, WITH MOST OF MY SARDARS OPENLY FLAUNTING MY AUTHORITY; AND THE BRITISH HOVERING IN AND AROUND MY LANDS. THEY WERE QUICK, TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS SITUATION. ON ONE HAND WAS THE FULL MIGHT OF THE BRITISH ARMS AND ON THE OTHER, THE STRANGE INTRANSIGENCE OF MY OWN SARDARS. THERE WAS NO OTHER OPTION FOR ME, BUT TO AGREE TO A HUMILIATING AGREEMENT, WITH THE BRITISH, IN 1876. AN AGREEMENT I HATED, FROM THE CORE OF MY HEART. BY IT, THE BRITISH GAINED GREATER INFLUENCE IN LARGE PARTS OF MY KHANATE. I ONLY AGREED, BECAUSE NOT DOING SO MEANT THE END OF MY KHANATE, AS IT WAS. AND IT'S DISINTEGRATION INTO PETTY FIEFDOMS. I AGREED, SO THAT, WHEN SITUATION WAS MORE FAVORABLE , TO REVOKE IT. IN 1877, I EVEN ATTENDED THE "IMPERIAL ASSEMBLAGE" DARBAR AT DELHI, WERE QUEEN VICTORIA, WAS PROCLAIMED THE EMPRESS OF INDIA. I HATED THE INCREASING INFLUENCE OF THE BRITISH IN MY LANDS. THEY HATED MY INDEPENDENT NATURE. A TIME CAME IN 1893, WHEN, ON ALLEGATIONS OF KILLING MY OWN PRIME MINISTER AND OF WANTON CRUELTY, I WAS DEPOSED AND IN MY PLACE, MY YOUNGER BROTHER MIR MAHMOOD KHAN, WAS MADE THE NEW KHAN. I REIGNED FOR ABOUT 36 YEARS. I WAS CONFINED AT PISHIN TILL MY DEATH 21st May 1907. There are a couple of slide shows on Utube from which I took the passage above ...Indicating the somewhat lack of trust he reflected arguably indicating the general view that he could be a bit violent …

Returning to the weapons situation please see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=Baluch where guns and swords are displayed variously.

[kronckew]

The Sudanese Hadendoa were referred to in racist insults as 'Fuzzy-Wuzzys'.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

The Jezail.


To fully return to the weapon Please See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-aEWZrTibE

An excellent couple of points are brought out on calibres of these weapons and wear proving the age of originals opposed to newly made examples often seen in souks in Afghanistan today.

[David R]

Originally Posted by kronckew

The Sudanese Hadendoa were referred to in racist insults as 'Fuzzy-Wuzzys'.

Not so much an insult, more a semi- affectionate description. If you want to see insults, look up what 19th C squaddies called their officers.

[Jim McDougall]

Interesting notes on some of the figures in these regions in Afghanistan of the period, and it is understandable that emotions and perspectives run deep, especially as warfare and combative situations leave deep scars. I have not been nor served in Afghanistan, but I have a son in law; son and grandson who have, and I know Ibrahiim has.

With that I was even a bit apprehensive in sharing the gun I acquired with them, but keeping objective and toward the unique nature and character of the weapon itself has been the primary outcome, so hoping to maintain that.

Can anyone share more on the locks on these with closeups and insights on them so as to put together a bit of identification compendium?

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Can anyone share more on the locks on these with closeups and insights on them so as to put together a bit of identification compendium?

Of course, first i think your lock is an Afghan copy decorative or not i don't know.
Second i think Elgood mentionned somewhere that British had a factory in Persia and then many locks are English made in Iran...
It would explain the quantities found in Afganistan.

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you Kubur! and I am inclined to agree, my example does appear to be an Afghan copy, it is not nearly as well executed as the example in the photo (with red background) which is deemed an authentic British lock.
I very much appreciate you sharing this page from Elgood, which I do not have with me presently.
Interesting that the British had manufacturing involvement in Iran, just as they did in Afghanistan with the Machin Khana in Kabul. At the Kabul factory though they did not produce spuriously marked locks etc and the factory had their own use of the Afghan royal stamp.

The spuriously marked locks seem to have come from the independent tribal artisans in Khyber locations such as Darra Khel and others.

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by Kubur

Of course, first i think your lock is an Afghan copy decorative or not i don't know.
Second i think Elgood mentionned somewhere that British had a factory in Persia and then many locks are English made in Iran...
It would explain the quantities found in Afganistan.

Here is the full section relating to EIC guns made in Tabriz.(From Firearms of the Islamic World in the Tareq Museum Kuwait by Elgood).
I seem to remember reading somewhere that Tabriz was not the only place in Persia where these guns were made, but can not remember where I read it.
Also an Afghan pistol which is locally made. I do not wish to detract or confuse the current theme of this thread, so it is only posted for interest only and not for comment.
Stu

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Interesting notes on some of the figures in these regions in Afghanistan of the period, and it is understandable that emotions and perspectives run deep, especially as warfare and combative situations leave deep scars. I have not been nor served in Afghanistan, but I have a son in law; son and grandson who have, and I know Ibrahiim has.

With that I was even a bit apprehensive in sharing the gun I acquired with them, but keeping objective and toward the unique nature and character of the weapon itself has been the primary outcome, so hoping to maintain that.

Can anyone share more on the locks on these with closeups and insights on them so as to put together a bit of identification compendium?

Hi Jim,
Here are pics of the lock of the second jezail shown in my pics. This gun has no trigger guard (as made) and the lock bears the heart shaped bale mark of the EIC, but not the rampant lion. I would class this lock as "genuine" as the lock parts are fixed with screws rather than peened. When I get a moment I will post pics of the other locks.
Stu

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Hi Jim,
Here are pics of the lock of the second jezail shown in my pics. This gun has no trigger guard (as made) and the lock bears the heart shaped bale mark of the EIC, but not the rampant lion.
When I get a moment I will post pics of the other locks.
Stu

Excellent Stu!!! That is exactly what I am trying to gather here, close ups and detail on these locks.
It seems the rampant lion came in around 1808 with the EIC but as always exact dates are unclear.

The EIC heart seen in your example here has rather than the quartered heart, what is known as the 'flaunched' heart, which has curved lines rather than quarters.
I had always thought that the VEIC stood for Venerable East India Co.
but I learned from David Harding that it was actually United East India Company (or to that effect as the 'U' was seen as a 'V' in those days).

It is amazing to me, and pretty exciting, that the Afghans so thoroughly copied these British markings from the many Brown Bess they obtained during the long years of campaigns in these rugged and vast regions.

Thanks very much for the great examples you are adding here.
Also again for the notes on the Sindhi (Baluch) versions of these guns.

It is my impression that it is hard to accurately define these as from Sind or Baluchistan as not only are these areas unclearly defined geographically, but the tribal diffusions are complicated. Simply more that makes the study of the arms of these regions so fascinating.

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

That picture of the tribals with guns has at its centre Khuda Dad Khan of Kalat arguably the most murderous butcher that ever stalked the earth...

The caption to that pic describes the tribesmen as Balochs and dated as 1879.
Another print/woodcut herewith, presumably earlier as the guns appear to be matchlocks.
Stu