Keris with nice Naga Kinatah blade for comments

Jean · 8th July 2019, 09:01 AM

Well, everybody agrees that this a very nice and rare old kris!

The blade was over-cleaned (mechanically?, some rust spots are still visible) but not etched recently I think. Regarding its age, 19th century starts on year 1800 so I doubt that it is "considerably" older.
I would have hoped that Alan could say a little more about this piece even if it is difficult from the pictures.
Regards

Sajen · 8th July 2019, 09:15 AM

Hello Séverin,

Beautiful keris! I am a little bit jealous.

I think that the sarung fit the blade well enough. Regarding the age, certainly 19th century but could be older, who knows.

Please turn the hilt a little bit more to the left.

Regards,
Detlef

A. G. Maisey · 8th July 2019, 09:31 AM

Jean, I avoided the use of the word "old", I used "older" instead.

Frankly I'm troubled by two things, the pamor and the type of applied gold.

It is absolutely impossible for me to form an opinion on this keris from a photograph.

Jean · 8th July 2019, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Frankly I'm troubled by two things, the pamor and the type of applied gold.

Thank you Alan. As a French I am not famliliar with the term "older" as we only know it as "older than" (Harrap's dictionary).
Could you please elaborate a bit (in broad terms) about what troubles you with the pamor and applied gold, and does it affect your age estimate or anything else about this piece?
Regards

A. G. Maisey · 8th July 2019, 10:57 AM

Jean, I apologise for being unable to comment further.

I have already said twice that I will not comment on a keris like this on the basis of photos, and I am not going to hang out a string of hypotheticals that would need more explanation than I am prepared to give in a forum that is open to the whole wide world.

I can understand that use of "older" in this way could be confusing. I'm sorry. You could think of it like this:-

an older vehicle, an older person, an older form of speech, an older type of cooking.

it is a general comparison, we are not saying that the vehicle is necessarily an "old" vehicle, but rather that it is no longer a new vehicle.

My use with this keris is in the same sense, it is no longer a new keris, it is an older keris, but I have pulled back on calling it straight out an old keris. Why?

Because from a photo cannot tell that.

I'm afraid that that is where I stop.

Athanase · 10th July 2019, 11:03 PM

More pictures of the hilt :

kai · 11th July 2019, 07:11 PM

Hello Séverin,

Thanks for the great series of pics which show a lot of details - neat photography skills!

Apart from the base, the carving seems to be not as deep as it is with some examples of this type. More importantly, the carving is extremely detailed and I guess we all agree that this is a beautiful piece of art!

I agree with your notion that the crosspiece was most likely not carved for this blade; please keep the scabbard as is though. IMHO, the blade, mendak, and hilt certainly are a good match!

Regards,
Kai

10th July 2019, 11:03 PM	#6
Athanase Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Paris (France) Posts: 420	More pictures of the hilt : Attached Images

8th July 2019, 09:01 AM	#1
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Well, everybody agrees that this a very nice and rare old kris! The blade was over-cleaned (mechanically?, some rust spots are still visible) but not etched recently I think. Regarding its age, 19th century starts on year 1800 so I doubt that it is "considerably" older. I would have hoped that Alan could say a little more about this piece even if it is difficult from the pictures. Regards

8th July 2019, 09:15 AM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,212	Hello Séverin, Beautiful keris! I am a little bit jealous. I think that the sarung fit the blade well enough. Regarding the age, certainly 19th century but could be older, who knows. Please turn the hilt a little bit more to the left. Regards, Detlef

8th July 2019, 09:31 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Jean, I avoided the use of the word "old", I used "older" instead. Frankly I'm troubled by two things, the pamor and the type of applied gold. It is absolutely impossible for me to form an opinion on this keris from a photograph.

8th July 2019, 10:57 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Jean, I apologise for being unable to comment further. I have already said twice that I will not comment on a keris like this on the basis of photos, and I am not going to hang out a string of hypotheticals that would need more explanation than I am prepared to give in a forum that is open to the whole wide world. I can understand that use of "older" in this way could be confusing. I'm sorry. You could think of it like this:- an older vehicle, an older person, an older form of speech, an older type of cooking. it is a general comparison, we are not saying that the vehicle is necessarily an "old" vehicle, but rather that it is no longer a new vehicle. My use with this keris is in the same sense, it is no longer a new keris, it is an older keris, but I have pulled back on calling it straight out an old keris. Why? Because from a photo cannot tell that. I'm afraid that that is where I stop.

11th July 2019, 07:11 PM	#7
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	Hello Séverin, Thanks for the great series of pics which show a lot of details - neat photography skills! Apart from the base, the carving seems to be not as deep as it is with some examples of this type. More importantly, the carving is extremely detailed and I guess we all agree that this is a beautiful piece of art! I agree with your notion that the crosspiece was most likely not carved for this blade; please keep the scabbard as is though. IMHO, the blade, mendak, and hilt certainly are a good match! Regards, Kai