Kindjal, filigreed sheath.

ariel · 30th June 2019, 01:34 PM

Thanks for the pics. Now we can stop guessing and see the reality.

Yours is a very modern one, being better than my ugly examples but infinitely worse than those presented by Marius. There is a wide variety of souvenirs, and yours is in the upper half of it: more careful filigree, better blade. But still, it has only tentative connection to the great Caucasian tradition.

One can deliberately collect recent imitations of anything: Chinese fakes of Rembrandt’s oils available in several sizes, Indian daggers with “ bird’s eye” mechanical Damascus and camel bone mosaic handles, stainless steel Turkish Zulfikars, plastic Egyptian scarabs etc. There are as many collections as there are collectors.

But the question “Why? What for?” never leaves my mind. There are inexpensive old kindjals on the market with a paipable aura of history and distinct ethnic styles. Why not acquire one of those instead?

But at the end of the day it is your decision.

ALEX · 8th July 2019, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockelk

... Could this be black niello in the background with the silver polished? Has anyone seen a sheath done in this fashion? ...

As Ariel noted, this is a modern kindjal. It is of white metal, they mostly use 'melchior alloy' which is mix of copper and nickel, or alpaka - another white metal alloy that visually resembles silver but has no silver content. There is also no niello at the background, it is painted or etched to a dark shade.
There are many modern daggers and swords of various quality being made now, mostly in Caucasus region. Of interest to this thread, here is another modern kindjal made in Georgia. Please note the carvings, niello-like decorations, beadwork and especially to note - the complex filigree on the back side of the scabbard. Even though it is hand made - nothing in it is real. Also, notice the number '3' stamped on the scabbard, a mark which Ariel already mentioned above.

rockelk · 9th July 2019, 12:49 AM

A poor picture, A even more poor description. The seller could only describe it as a dagger. 0 bids. I'm out $40. I suppose it is a cheap lesson from the University of Hard knocks. Thanks to all. With Regards, rm

mariusgmioc · 9th July 2019, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockelk

A poor picture, A even more poor description. The seller could only describe it as a dagger. 0 bids. I'm out $40. I suppose it is a cheap lesson from the University of Hard knocks. Thanks to all. With Regards, rm

For 40 bucks I'd say it is a great deal. Would have bought it myself for this little!
In conclusion: great buy!

kronckew · 9th July 2019, 11:16 AM

Reminds me of one of my earliest purchases, relegated to my OOPS closet.

rockelk · 9th July 2019, 03:52 PM

That sheath is a surprisingly similar style. There is probably more in my “opps” closet than I know. Hence, Masters from the University of Hard knocks.

rockelk · 9th July 2019, 05:08 PM

Given the comments and direction, I pondered / reflected, then went back to ebay and found in excess 200 “ kindjals”. Most (150+) are the obvious flat bladed three parallel fullers, with and without the “3”. Those souvenir knives range from six for $50 to $350 ea. plus shipping. Nowhere else than on e-bay can the phrase “Caveat emptor “be more true.

Among those I found of interest are two that have no marks but posse the linear forging grain structure. Two are the Russian ZOF style, pre 1914. Five or so have maker’s marks (stars, Zia mark and a few various other stamps. But I can find no reference depicting the various hallmarks that would validate / imply the article as a valid antique. Pleading ignorance, I would appreciate comments, as to, how to begin identifying valid antiques. With Regards, rm

9th July 2019, 12:49 AM	#3
rockelk Member Join Date: May 2019 Location: Arizona Posts: 42	Got what I paid for... A poor picture, A even more poor description. The seller could only describe it as a dagger. 0 bids. I'm out $40. I suppose it is a cheap lesson from the University of Hard knocks. Thanks to all. With Regards, rm

9th July 2019, 11:16 AM	#5
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,224	Reminds me of one of my earliest purchases, relegated to my OOPS closet. Attached Images

9th July 2019, 03:52 PM	#6
rockelk Member Join Date: May 2019 Location: Arizona Posts: 42	M.s. HK That sheath is a surprisingly similar style. There is probably more in my “opps” closet than I know. Hence, Masters from the University of Hard knocks.

9th July 2019, 05:08 PM	#7
rockelk Member Join Date: May 2019 Location: Arizona Posts: 42	Caveat emptor Given the comments and direction, I pondered / reflected, then went back to ebay and found in excess 200 “ kindjals”. Most (150+) are the obvious flat bladed three parallel fullers, with and without the “3”. Those souvenir knives range from six for $50 to $350 ea. plus shipping. Nowhere else than on e-bay can the phrase “Caveat emptor “be more true. Among those I found of interest are two that have no marks but posse the linear forging grain structure. Two are the Russian ZOF style, pre 1914. Five or so have maker’s marks (stars, Zia mark and a few various other stamps. But I can find no reference depicting the various hallmarks that would validate / imply the article as a valid antique. Pleading ignorance, I would appreciate comments, as to, how to begin identifying valid antiques. With Regards, rm

30th June 2019, 01:34 PM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Thanks for the pics. Now we can stop guessing and see the reality. Yours is a very modern one, being better than my ugly examples but infinitely worse than those presented by Marius. There is a wide variety of souvenirs, and yours is in the upper half of it: more careful filigree, better blade. But still, it has only tentative connection to the great Caucasian tradition. One can deliberately collect recent imitations of anything: Chinese fakes of Rembrandt’s oils available in several sizes, Indian daggers with “ bird’s eye” mechanical Damascus and camel bone mosaic handles, stainless steel Turkish Zulfikars, plastic Egyptian scarabs etc. There are as many collections as there are collectors. But the question “Why? What for?” never leaves my mind. There are inexpensive old kindjals on the market with a paipable aura of history and distinct ethnic styles. Why not acquire one of those instead? But at the end of the day it is your decision.