Waterloo or not...

[fernando]

Spoke too soon ...
This one even has articulated features.


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[batjka]

The ensemble is definitely put together in recent times - the script is contemporary Russian Cyrillic, put in place after the orphography reform of 1918. However, it does not mean that the items are not authentic. So-called "black archaeology" is widespread in Russia with people digging up items from passed wars and selling them as souvenirs. So it's plausible (if not likely) that the balls and the grenade are authentic ordnance from Crimean War.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by batjka

... So it's plausible (if not likely) that the balls and the grenade are authentic ordnance from Crimean War...

Sure thing Batjka; that is something i did not think of doubting.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by batjka

The ensemble is definitely put together in recent times - the script is contemporary Russian Cyrillic, put in place after the orphography reform of 1918. However, it does not mean that the items are not authentic. So-called "black archaeology" is widespread in Russia with people digging up items from passed wars and selling them as souvenirs. So it's plausible (if not likely) that the balls and the grenade are authentic ordnance from Crimean War.

Very well noted Batjka!!! The inscribed plate is most pertinent, as you say that its manner of Cyrillic is a manner post 1918. Indeed, this does NOT suggest any inauthenticity of the items used to fashion this poignant memento. …..which is what it is, NOT a contrived marketing item.
The fact that the plate simply notes 'IN MEMORY OF SEVASTOPOL' strongly suggests this notion, rather than elaborately detailing date, event etc .
While the 'black art' possibility is compelling, it is possible this assembly might have been put together many years ago from a survivors memorabilia and likely by the family who did not know details of its circumstance.

When I mentioned 'trench art', this referred to many items which were fashioned by soldiers using items of ordnance, and other battle related materials to fashion interesting assemblies in the manner of this cannon ball display. What comes to mind is candle holders etc. made from shell casings (much of this was WWI),

When I illustrated the photo of the 'Valley of the Shadow of Death', the intent was to convey the powerfully dramatic effect that artillery had on the men in the Crimean War, the relentless shelling and the foreboding feeling that went with the photo. The reason I brought forth the fact that it had been 'staged' was to establish transparency and emphasize this was the artistic effect the photographer wished to instill.

Clearly, whoever assembled this almost chilling memento of Sevastopol had intended to convey similar notions.

While I know that in the original post there was apparently a genuine hope of this relic/art having Waterloo provenance, however, the battles and events in the Crimea in 1854-56 were equally important. The 'Charge of the Light Brigade', mostly through the words of Lord Tennyson, is one of the most famed, and fateful, cavalry charges in history. It is remarkable that his poem, as well as this famed photo with title phrased from it, carry the dramatic nuance of this relatively little known war.
This 'memento' does much the same, regardless of when and why it was assembled.

[fernando]

Jim, what i read from Batjka is that these ammunitions were potentially caught in the Crimean war scenario, but intentionally for the making of setups to sell as souvenirs.
You might have missed or ignored my post #14 where i have shown pictures of an example in the same line as the one here discussed, in this case (by the way) an articulated candle holder, ironically offered in a Waterloo memorabilia website, although assumedly tagged as a Crimean souvenir.
From which both notes we have no doubt left that, these things pour out there, definitely for commercial purposes. Looking at these as they should be seen, is a way to not confuse them with more serious items, actually made to remember moments by those who had been through such real tragic situations.
All in all i realize that, one and the other do not represent the same .

[kronckew]

Cannon balls literally carpeted the Valley of Death, many rolling back downhill and collecting on the valley floor. This one is almost the same location as the earlier photo, but before the EOD teams cleaned up the road.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by kronckew

Cannon balls literally carpeted the Valley of Death, many rolling back downhill and collecting on the valley floor. This one is the same as the earlier photo, but before they cleaned up the road.

Wayne this is a most interesting perspective. There is indeed an alternate photograph without the cannon balls scattered, however in the investigations which I read, it was suggested this photo was taken BEFORE the balls were placed in array for a more 'provocative'(?) photo.

In looking at the photo, it does seem that some of the ordnance is somewhat imbedded in the dirt or ground material. If these were placed strategically for the purpose of a photographic image, would they have had such evidence of settling into the surface dirt? Meanwhile those balls on what appears to be the main 'travelled' part of the road remain superficially situated ( harder dirt?).

The suggestion that given the hilly terrain, the spent balls would have likely rolled downward after impact and loss of velocity, is well placed. But that so many seem to have all hit in the same place and rolled backward en masse seems somewhat suspect, though still plausible.

The trajectory and distances that cannon shot would travel, even though low velocity, is remarkable. Even a slow moving ball could effect traumatic injury past its established range, often they could even be seen moving along in flight.
My GG grandfather, who fought through the Civil War, and lived to very old age (died 1941) was interviewed about his recollections and asked if he was ever wounded said, he was....."got hit by a cannon ball once, but didn't hurt me none'!! Clearly the ball was beyond spent, and at the end of its flight.

I think the point is that regardless of how certain relics or objects which have provenance to a certain event or campaign are displayed, they still have inherent historical importance. We cannot possibly determine (usually) what the intent of such assemblies or displays might be, and can only try to appreciate whatever inherent value might exist.

With art, the purpose is to elicit certain emotional, sensitive and other subjective reactions in the viewer. Clearly those results have been accomplished here, thus is the essence of 'art', and well done.


We do all see things through different prisms, and myself as both artist and arms historian (only in degree in both) I am inclined to see subjects from an artistic perspective, and often overtly optimistic.

A quote I have long kept best describes:
"...I was once told that it was said of Laking (Sir Guy Laking, British arms historian and collector) that he would always find something kind to say about a fellow collectors object".
"Arms and Armor Study in Edwardian Britain"
Sid Blair & Michael Lacy (1999).

Laking was one of the early 'greats' in arms collecting and well known author of many long venerated articles and references, who I very much admired from my own early beginnings in collecting.

[kronckew]

I almost added an "or after" after the before ; I figured you'd comment .

Journalists have always spiced up their photos, right up to now. one got fired not long back when they found he was holed up in a posh hotel far from the front in the sandpit and staging photos to 'illustrate' his second hand stories.

I heard they moved bones a lot in Cambodia to make it more concentrated and less spread out 'for dramatic purposes' after it was safe for them to go back..