Identifying Pamor for a First Keris

[QuisUtDeus]

Also, I was planning to do a short lime juice bath as the final step for the cleaning. Should the seeds be strained? It's very important in cooking food. I don't see why it wouldn't be with iron. Many Indonesian members are very picky about the oil so I figure this would extend to the lime.

[QuisUtDeus]

I can't find the glue and dye you recommended, Mr. A.G. I'll have to order them online and finish the woodwork later. What exactly is this 'bambu'?

There is a little wiggle in the base fit. What do I fill that with? I think for the warangka to match the shape of the blade I would have to do a lot of sanding. I don't do woodwork so don't have machines. It would have to be by hand.

[QuisUtDeus]

I neglected to ask what sort of thread is ideal to reinstall the hilt? Any knotting techniques? It seems to me squareknots would do well?

The old thread was really disgusting, I had to toss it. The seller must have taken his pictures after acquisition and then tucked away the blade for a long time.

What sort of oils are you all using. The Indonesians members say not to use synthetics. I'm inclined to agree with them. But anything you have to say I will also listen to.

[Rick]

Yarn for the handle; just wind it around, a knot is not really needed.
Do a forum search for keris oil and get lots of opinions and recipes.

[QuisUtDeus]

Originally Posted by Rick

Yarn for the handle; just wind it around, a knot is not really needed.
Do a forum search for keris oil and get lots of opinions and recipes.

Thank you! I'm still learning how to use the forum so have not been referencing who I am replying to. I know how to on my day off. A wonderful day off!

I would grow my hair and use that instead, but it takes awfully long to grow.

[QuisUtDeus]

Originally Posted by Rick

Yarn for the handle; just wind it around, a knot is not really needed.
Do a forum search for keris oil and get lots of opinions and recipes.

I've developed my own coconut oil base that I use for my hair. It is seasoned like Jamaican food. Not terribly different than Indonesian, but too complex for Filipinos. Very unlike Thai. I will try it.

[QuisUtDeus]

I read on the forum not to sharpen the blade. That makes me happy. It's still sharp enough, anyway. I've knicked myself a few times during cleaning.

Is a very light polish a bad idea? I have Cape Cod cloths I use for my watches and jewelry. This is something I'm good at already. I'm very tactile. I can feel when I've polished off less than a mm. I'll be able to retain the pamor.

[David]

Originally Posted by QuisUtDeus

I read on the forum not to sharpen the blade. That makes me happy. It's still sharp enough, anyway. I've knicked myself a few times during cleaning.

Is a very light polish a bad idea? I have Cape Cod cloths I use for my watches and jewelry. This is something I'm good at already. I'm very tactile. I can feel when I've polished off less than a mm. I'll be able to retain the pamor.

I would not attempt to polish this blade. Bali blade are traditionally polished when cleaned and stained, but i believe we have already established that is is not a Bali blade (probably Lombok) and it seems clear that re-polishing has not been the rule for this blade within its lifetime. If you polish this blade i believe you will ruin the surface.
Care and maintenance of keris is something which may take at least a little time to learn and understand. Being very new to the keris world i would recommend that you proceed with any form of restoration, or even conservation, with time and caution. This blade has been around for a while. I suggest that you don't rush to do anything as a wrong step might not only damage the physical blade, but the spirit and energy that you currently say you feel from this particular keris.

[QuisUtDeus]

Thank you all!

I thought that 'bambu' might be the wood but wanted to make sure. A lot of products these days use curious spellings for their names. I'm not in a rush. I will hold off on restoring the scabbard and buying the glue and dye. If I really need bamboo I will definitely wait until I visit the Philippines again to restore the scabbard. The wood is free and fresh, and I will have an experienced chemist and carpenter to help.

I am excited about this all, but I'm being very careful, so don't worry! I was worried about scratching the blade so contacted a man who restored swords. He recommended a scratchless cleaner and I am using it. So far no scratches! The blade is pretty much all clean now. The pindok is a real pain, though. I will let the lime take care of it.

I'm going to buy some beer now and chill out with my kreteks. Will upload pictures when I return!

[QuisUtDeus]

Fit:

[QuisUtDeus]

Originally Posted by David

I would not attempt to polish this blade. Bali blade are traditionally polished when cleaned and stained, but i believe we have already established that is is not a Bali blade (probably Lombok) and it seems clear that re-polishing has not been the rule for this blade within its lifetime. If you polish this blade i believe you will ruin the surface.
Care and maintenance of keris is something which may take at least a little time to learn and understand. Being very new to the keris world i would recommend that you proceed with any form of restoration, or even conservation, with time and caution. This blade has been around for a while. I suggest that you don't rush to do anything as a wrong step might not only damage the physical blade, but the spirit and energy that you currently say you feel from this particular keris.

Thanks! I won't polish the blade. I thought I might remove miniature specks of ugliness after the lime treatment, but I will leave it alone now.

I didn't want to put the blade immediately in lime juice. It seemed to me that the corrosion wouldn't come out even. I didn't wanted to do anything corrosive, but, man! That gunk and rust was really awful! It was deep into the ganjah!

[David]

Thanks for the additional photos. It doesn't look like you should have too much trouble adjusting the fit to this sheath.
The new photos reveal features that i hadn't quite noticed before, like the fullers that run almost 3/4 of the way up the blade. Frankly, the keris appears even less Lombok in these last shots. This isn't t say that it is not, but i feel like there are some Bugis influence working in there. Of course, that would not be completely out of character in Lombok i suppose. Anyway, certainly not a Bali blade. It does seem to be a nice keris regardless of its exact origins.
I hear that you are strong on traveling with this keris to the Philippines, but i personally would not consider making such a trip with it. You really do risk the chance of running into trouble whenever you cross boarders with it. If i were you i would try my best tp keep the keris in the States and do the work on your own.

[QuisUtDeus]

I read that warangan for staining is made from 'raw orange arsenic' and 'realgar'. I imagine what nature provides in Indonesia is similar to the Philippines.

If I stain, I don't want a heavy stain. Maybe ripened calamansi will work?

I have been into the stone hobby for a while. I will find out what this 'realgar' is and if I can find it in the Philippines. I have never heard of this stone, before.

[David]

Originally Posted by QuisUtDeus

I can't find the glue and dye you recommended, Mr. A.G. I'll have to order them online and finish the woodwork later. What exactly is this 'bambu'?

There is a little wiggle in the base fit. What do I fill that with? I think for the warangka to match the shape of the blade I would have to do a lot of sanding. I don't do woodwork so don't have machines. It would have to be by hand.

Alan is in Australia, so it's probably sleep time for him at the moment. I am sure he will be back to answer you questions, though i believe i can answer some of them.
Araldite is a two-step epoxy. I am not sure if to is commercially available in the USA, though you can probably find to on the internet. Alan may correct me, but i am fairly sure that there are other two-step you could substitute if you wish.
I suspect that by "bambu" Alan was referring to bamboo. I believe that slivers of bamboo that Alan suggested inserted into the loose spaces will take care of the wiggle room you have. Please correct me if i am wrong Alan.
I don't believe anything you need to do here requires any machine working. It can all be done by hand.
Can you put the pieces together and insert the blade and make some photographs so that we can see how the blade fits (or doesn't) in the sheath? Both the veil from the side and the top as well would be helpful.

[La Pagaru]

absolutly this keris is bugis keris,,

[David]

Originally Posted by La Pagaru

absolutly this keris is bugis keris,,

I believe that is a distinct possibility. But from where? Bugis is very moveable feast.

[A. G. Maisey]

I have no problem with a Bugis influence for this keris.

The sorsoran, especially the indented gandhik and boto adeg blumbangan can be related to South Sulawesi, these features are also attributed to the Eastern Islands of the Archipelago, and the Bugis people occupied Eastern Lombok.

However, I personally do not know of Bugis keris with this very dramatic topographic treatment from South Sulawesi, or from anywhere other than Lombok.

I'd very much like to see examples of Bugis influenced keris that had this style of wilahan and that also had inarguable provenance for somewhere other than Lombok.

I know almost nothing about Bugis keris, I have never carried out research in South Sulawesi, so perhaps this style of keris can be found in South Sulawesi, or even in the Peninsula. But I do not know of examples that can illustrate this.

For me this is most likely a keris from Lombok, but most certainly we can accept Bugis influence.

[David]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

I have no problem with a Bugis influence for this keris.

The sorsoran, especially the indented gandhik and boto adeg blumbangan can be related to South Sulawesi, these features are also attributed to the Eastern Islands of the Archipelago, and the Bugis people occupied Eastern Lombok.

However, I personally do not know of Bugis keris with this very dramatic topographic treatment from South Sulawesi, or from anywhere other than Lombok.

I'd very much like to see examples of Bugis influenced keris that had this style of wilahan and that also had inarguable provenance for somewhere other than Lombok.

I know almost nothing about Bugis keris, I have never carried out research in South Sulawesi, so perhaps this style of keris can be found in South Sulawesi, or even in the Peninsula. But I do not know of examples that can illustrate this.

For me this is most likely a keris from Lombok, but most certainly we can accept Bugis influence.

Alan, does this mean that you are not willing to accept a keris made outside of South Sulawesi as Bugis, only that it might be "Bugis influenced"? As we know, the Bugis people got around and had settlements all about the archipelago. If this keris was made in Lombok, but by a Bugis pande for a Bugis person would it not be fair to say that it might therefore be both from Lombok AND Bugis at the same time?

[A. G. Maisey]

Actually David, I believe I'm saying pretty much the same as you.

The Bugis originate in South Sulawesi.

They went all over the place.

One of the places they went to was Eastern Lombok, they settled there.

After a time Bugis keris made in Lombok sometimes acquired a style that was not seen in keris from other places.

In the case of this particular keris, I am of the opinion that it comes from Lombok, but has Bugis features, as well as other features that are the result of influences other than Bugis.

So it is a Lombok keris with Bugis influence.

There are probably a number of ways in which this idea could be expressed.

To move sideways a little bit. Wherever the Bugis people went, they made keris, but those keris are not identical with the Bugis keris that were made in South Sulawesi. In the book "Senjata Pusaka Bugis" we can find Bugis keris with stylistic variation that points to varying geographic locations of origin for those keris.

I had a quick flick through this book before I wrote post #60, I could not find any keris with similar deep kruwingan such as this keris has, but there are numerous examples of the indented gandhik, the style that in Solo in the 1980's was regarded by the keris elites as evidence of a keris from the Eastern Islands. At that time in Solo most people seemed to think that the world beyond Bali was remote and savage, so Lombok was lumped in with all the other Eastern Islands.

In "Senjata Pusaka Bugis" this gandhik style that was thought of as "Eastern Islands" by the Solo people, is identified as South Sulawesi.

Then I went to "Keris Lombok", and in this book we can see many examples of extreme topographic sculpting.

There are any number of combinations of words that can be used to classify this keris, but I have chosen "Lombok with Bugis influence". Anybody who does not like this combination of words is perfectly at liberty to choose their own.

[kronckew]

5=Minute Araldite= 5 min working time clear epoxy, araldite is a brand name. Pick any one that is available in your local area.