Identifying Pamor for a First Keris

QuisUtDeus · 13th May 2019, 04:04 PM

Mr. A.G., you wrote just in time. I'm out of bed and was going to leave for the store soon. Attached are pictures of the break. The break isn't clean in the back; the glue is in tact and crack carries into the warangka (I think that's the word). How do I remove all this glue?

QuisUtDeus · 13th May 2019, 04:06 PM

Pictures of break and how it fits together:

QuisUtDeus · 13th May 2019, 05:13 PM

Also, I was planning to do a short lime juice bath as the final step for the cleaning. Should the seeds be strained? It's very important in cooking food. I don't see why it wouldn't be with iron. Many Indonesian members are very picky about the oil so I figure this would extend to the lime.

QuisUtDeus · 13th May 2019, 05:59 PM

I can't find the glue and dye you recommended, Mr. A.G. I'll have to order them online and finish the woodwork later. What exactly is this 'bambu'?

There is a little wiggle in the base fit. What do I fill that with? I think for the warangka to match the shape of the blade I would have to do a lot of sanding. I don't do woodwork so don't have machines. It would have to be by hand.

QuisUtDeus · 13th May 2019, 06:16 PM

I neglected to ask what sort of thread is ideal to reinstall the hilt? Any knotting techniques? It seems to me squareknots would do well?

The old thread was really disgusting, I had to toss it. The seller must have taken his pictures after acquisition and then tucked away the blade for a long time.

What sort of oils are you all using. The Indonesians members say not to use synthetics. I'm inclined to agree with them. But anything you have to say I will also listen to.

Rick · 13th May 2019, 06:21 PM

Yarn for the handle; just wind it around, a knot is not really needed.
Do a forum search for keris oil and get lots of opinions and recipes.

QuisUtDeus · 13th May 2019, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Yarn for the handle; just wind it around, a knot is not really needed.
Do a forum search for keris oil and get lots of opinions and recipes.

Thank you! I'm still learning how to use the forum so have not been referencing who I am replying to. I know how to on my day off. A wonderful day off!

I would grow my hair and use that instead, but it takes awfully long to grow.

QuisUtDeus · 13th May 2019, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Yarn for the handle; just wind it around, a knot is not really needed.
Do a forum search for keris oil and get lots of opinions and recipes.

I've developed my own coconut oil base that I use for my hair. It is seasoned like Jamaican food. Not terribly different than Indonesian, but too complex for Filipinos. Very unlike Thai. I will try it.

QuisUtDeus · 13th May 2019, 06:25 PM

I read on the forum not to sharpen the blade. That makes me happy. It's still sharp enough, anyway. I've knicked myself a few times during cleaning.

Is a very light polish a bad idea? I have Cape Cod cloths I use for my watches and jewelry. This is something I'm good at already. I'm very tactile. I can feel when I've polished off less than a mm. I'll be able to retain the pamor.

David · 13th May 2019, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuisUtDeus

I read on the forum not to sharpen the blade. That makes me happy. It's still sharp enough, anyway. I've knicked myself a few times during cleaning.

Is a very light polish a bad idea? I have Cape Cod cloths I use for my watches and jewelry. This is something I'm good at already. I'm very tactile. I can feel when I've polished off less than a mm. I'll be able to retain the pamor.

I would not attempt to polish this blade. Bali blade are traditionally polished when cleaned and stained, but i believe we have already established that is is not a Bali blade (probably Lombok) and it seems clear that re-polishing has not been the rule for this blade within its lifetime. If you polish this blade i believe you will ruin the surface.
Care and maintenance of keris is something which may take at least a little time to learn and understand. Being very new to the keris world i would recommend that you proceed with any form of restoration, or even conservation, with time and caution. This blade has been around for a while. I suggest that you don't rush to do anything as a wrong step might not only damage the physical blade, but the spirit and energy that you currently say you feel from this particular keris.

David · 13th May 2019, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuisUtDeus

I can't find the glue and dye you recommended, Mr. A.G. I'll have to order them online and finish the woodwork later. What exactly is this 'bambu'?

There is a little wiggle in the base fit. What do I fill that with? I think for the warangka to match the shape of the blade I would have to do a lot of sanding. I don't do woodwork so don't have machines. It would have to be by hand.

Alan is in Australia, so it's probably sleep time for him at the moment. I am sure he will be back to answer you questions, though i believe i can answer some of them.
Araldite is a two-step epoxy. I am not sure if to is commercially available in the USA, though you can probably find to on the internet. Alan may correct me, but i am fairly sure that there are other two-step you could substitute if you wish.
I suspect that by "bambu" Alan was referring to bamboo. I believe that slivers of bamboo that Alan suggested inserted into the loose spaces will take care of the wiggle room you have. Please correct me if i am wrong Alan.
I don't believe anything you need to do here requires any machine working. It can all be done by hand.
Can you put the pieces together and insert the blade and make some photographs so that we can see how the blade fits (or doesn't) in the sheath? Both the veil from the side and the top as well would be helpful.

La Pagaru · 24th May 2019, 02:20 AM

absolutly this keris is bugis keris,,

David · 24th May 2019, 02:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by La Pagaru

absolutly this keris is bugis keris,,

I believe that is a distinct possibility. But from where? Bugis is very moveable feast.

A. G. Maisey · 24th May 2019, 09:34 AM

I have no problem with a Bugis influence for this keris.

The sorsoran, especially the indented gandhik and boto adeg blumbangan can be related to South Sulawesi, these features are also attributed to the Eastern Islands of the Archipelago, and the Bugis people occupied Eastern Lombok.

However, I personally do not know of Bugis keris with this very dramatic topographic treatment from South Sulawesi, or from anywhere other than Lombok.

I'd very much like to see examples of Bugis influenced keris that had this style of wilahan and that also had inarguable provenance for somewhere other than Lombok.

I know almost nothing about Bugis keris, I have never carried out research in South Sulawesi, so perhaps this style of keris can be found in South Sulawesi, or even in the Peninsula. But I do not know of examples that can illustrate this.

For me this is most likely a keris from Lombok, but most certainly we can accept Bugis influence.

kronckew · 24th May 2019, 09:41 AM

5=Minute Araldite= 5 min working time clear epoxy, araldite is a brand name. Pick any one that is available in your local area.

13th May 2019, 04:06 PM	#2
QuisUtDeus Member Join Date: May 2019 Posts: 30	Pictures of break and how it fits together: Attached Images

24th May 2019, 02:20 AM	#12
La Pagaru Member Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Indonesia Posts: 84	idetification absolutly this keris is bugis keris,,

13th May 2019, 04:04 PM	#1
QuisUtDeus Member Join Date: May 2019 Posts: 30	Mr. A.G., you wrote just in time. I'm out of bed and was going to leave for the store soon. Attached are pictures of the break. The break isn't clean in the back; the glue is in tact and crack carries into the warangka (I think that's the word). How do I remove all this glue?

13th May 2019, 05:13 PM	#3
QuisUtDeus Member Join Date: May 2019 Posts: 30	Also, I was planning to do a short lime juice bath as the final step for the cleaning. Should the seeds be strained? It's very important in cooking food. I don't see why it wouldn't be with iron. Many Indonesian members are very picky about the oil so I figure this would extend to the lime.

13th May 2019, 05:59 PM	#4
QuisUtDeus Member Join Date: May 2019 Posts: 30	I can't find the glue and dye you recommended, Mr. A.G. I'll have to order them online and finish the woodwork later. What exactly is this 'bambu'? There is a little wiggle in the base fit. What do I fill that with? I think for the warangka to match the shape of the blade I would have to do a lot of sanding. I don't do woodwork so don't have machines. It would have to be by hand.

13th May 2019, 06:16 PM	#5
QuisUtDeus Member Join Date: May 2019 Posts: 30	I neglected to ask what sort of thread is ideal to reinstall the hilt? Any knotting techniques? It seems to me squareknots would do well? The old thread was really disgusting, I had to toss it. The seller must have taken his pictures after acquisition and then tucked away the blade for a long time. What sort of oils are you all using. The Indonesians members say not to use synthetics. I'm inclined to agree with them. But anything you have to say I will also listen to.

13th May 2019, 06:21 PM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	Yarn for the handle; just wind it around, a knot is not really needed. Do a forum search for keris oil and get lots of opinions and recipes.

13th May 2019, 06:25 PM	#9
QuisUtDeus Member Join Date: May 2019 Posts: 30	I read on the forum not to sharpen the blade. That makes me happy. It's still sharp enough, anyway. I've knicked myself a few times during cleaning. Is a very light polish a bad idea? I have Cape Cod cloths I use for my watches and jewelry. This is something I'm good at already. I'm very tactile. I can feel when I've polished off less than a mm. I'll be able to retain the pamor.

24th May 2019, 09:34 AM	#14
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	I have no problem with a Bugis influence for this keris. The sorsoran, especially the indented gandhik and boto adeg blumbangan can be related to South Sulawesi, these features are also attributed to the Eastern Islands of the Archipelago, and the Bugis people occupied Eastern Lombok. However, I personally do not know of Bugis keris with this very dramatic topographic treatment from South Sulawesi, or from anywhere other than Lombok. I'd very much like to see examples of Bugis influenced keris that had this style of wilahan and that also had inarguable provenance for somewhere other than Lombok. I know almost nothing about Bugis keris, I have never carried out research in South Sulawesi, so perhaps this style of keris can be found in South Sulawesi, or even in the Peninsula. But I do not know of examples that can illustrate this. For me this is most likely a keris from Lombok, but most certainly we can accept Bugis influence.

24th May 2019, 09:41 AM	#15
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,224	5=Minute Araldite= 5 min working time clear epoxy, araldite is a brand name. Pick any one that is available in your local area.