Sudanese Command Batons

Jim McDougall · 26th April 2019, 08:44 PM

Thank you for adding these images Ibrahiim, these shapes really are compelling suggestion of these items on the base of these staffs representing or even perhaps having been these kinds of vials. I am not sure of the processes or ceremony of ablutions or how such rituals would be carried out on the field of battle, but as it was a Jihad, certainly such Holy Men would have been present.
I think the similar examples shown here in the thread have shown these were some sort of scepter used by priests, and while these may not have been the actual S/C items in all cases, they may well have been intended to represent them.

Kubur · 13th December 2019, 08:53 AM

This little Sudanese maces are amazing.
As Teodor said they are most likely to be associated to Dervish and sufi rituals.
There is no doubt that they are original items and they are rare but not unique.
I think one is for sale in the swap forum...

ariel · 13th December 2019, 09:46 AM

Kubur,

You " think"????

What gave you the idea? :-)))))

Kubur · 13th December 2019, 04:17 PM

Are you saying that i'm a very bad saleman?

TVV · 14th December 2019, 12:19 AM

When you consider that many "Mahdist" items are actually post Omdurman and intended for the European souvenir market, these are quite cool in that they are indeed from an earlier time, potentially the early 19th century. And I agree that they are not seen often and somewhat obscure.

drac2k · 31st May 2020, 08:16 PM

Well, I finally got a pair of these, I have read the entire thread and I still don't know their purpose.
I can not see how they would be used in a religious context other than as the Tibetians use the phurba to exorcise demons or as various religions in the practice of self-flagellation.
Based on my limited knowledge I can only imagine that these were indeed used as command batons, as certainly the Sudanese may have viewed and copied their use by British or as souvenirs sold to the above-mentioned soldiers.
Also, what is the deal with the seeds? Are they to be taken as a power boost, are they used as a sedative after a long hard day to help you sleep, or to rid yourself of your least favorite wife?

Jack Fletcher · 30th March 2022, 06:41 PM

To jump on this post I picked this example up on ebay the otherday thats now arrived. Its identical to the example in the a german book.

gp · 30th March 2022, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

This little Sudanese maces are amazing.
As Teodor said they are most likely to be associated to Dervish and sufi rituals.
There is no doubt that they are original items and they are rare but not unique.
I think one is for sale in the swap forum...

please advise which rituals as I never came across them in the sufi Zikrs ?
Are there any references , books about these ?

31st May 2020, 08:16 PM	#6
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,258	Well, I finally got a pair of these, I have read the entire thread and I still don't know their purpose. I can not see how they would be used in a religious context other than as the Tibetians use the phurba to exorcise demons or as various religions in the practice of self-flagellation. Based on my limited knowledge I can only imagine that these were indeed used as command batons, as certainly the Sudanese may have viewed and copied their use by British or as souvenirs sold to the above-mentioned soldiers. Also, what is the deal with the seeds? Are they to be taken as a power boost, are they used as a sedative after a long hard day to help you sleep, or to rid yourself of your least favorite wife? Attached Images

30th March 2022, 06:41 PM	#7
Jack Fletcher Member Join Date: Jul 2021 Posts: 28	To jump on this post I picked this example up on ebay the otherday thats now arrived. Its identical to the example in the a german book. Attached Images

26th April 2019, 08:44 PM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	Thank you for adding these images Ibrahiim, these shapes really are compelling suggestion of these items on the base of these staffs representing or even perhaps having been these kinds of vials. I am not sure of the processes or ceremony of ablutions or how such rituals would be carried out on the field of battle, but as it was a Jihad, certainly such Holy Men would have been present. I think the similar examples shown here in the thread have shown these were some sort of scepter used by priests, and while these may not have been the actual S/C items in all cases, they may well have been intended to represent them.

13th December 2019, 08:53 AM	#2
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	This little Sudanese maces are amazing. As Teodor said they are most likely to be associated to Dervish and sufi rituals. There is no doubt that they are original items and they are rare but not unique. I think one is for sale in the swap forum...

13th December 2019, 09:46 AM	#3
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Kubur, You " think"???? What gave you the idea? :-)))))

13th December 2019, 04:17 PM	#4
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Are you saying that i'm a very bad saleman?

14th December 2019, 12:19 AM	#5
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,664	When you consider that many "Mahdist" items are actually post Omdurman and intended for the European souvenir market, these are quite cool in that they are indeed from an earlier time, potentially the early 19th century. And I agree that they are not seen often and somewhat obscure.