Keris for sharing

jagabuwana · 13th April 2019, 06:03 AM

Hi all,

Here's one of my keris. I picked it up in a really sorry crusty state (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=24017) and it cleaned up nicely. I tried to sulphur stain it but I wasn't at all satisfied with the result. I bought some realgar and will attempt to stain with that.

Jogja dressings, bugis blade.

My gratitude to a certain member of this forum who helped me complete this keris with his time, care and labour, teaching me a great deal all the while. I'm not sure he would like to be named, but I would be very happy for them to make themselves known

jagabuwana · 20th April 2019, 09:07 AM

.. at the risk of sounding like I'm fishing, comments are welcome, though I can see why that would be ambiguous from the thread title.

David · 20th April 2019, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jagabuwana

.. at the risk of sounding like I'm fishing, comments are welcome, though I can see why that would be ambiguous from the thread title.

Well we did already have a discussion about the blade, as you have pointed out with the link you provided. It is a bit of a mismatch with this Bugis blade in fairly pedestrian Yogyakarta dress. I am not sure there is much to actually comment on regarding this dress other than the obvious mismatching. Is there something else in particular you wish to know about this keris that has not already been discussed yet?

Sajen · 20th April 2019, 09:16 PM

I agree with everything David has stated. Why you haven't tried to give the blade a Bugis dress?

Regards,
Detlef

A. G. Maisey · 21st April 2019, 01:34 AM

Yes, it is a mismatch, but something that a lot collectors do not realise is that old Bali, Madura, and Bugis blades are found reasonably frequently in old Javanese dress that we associate with the old centers of power.The reason for this is that men from these societies were recognised as very capable fighters. and were employed as mercenaries.

Then there is the possibility that Jaga preferred to use this dress, rather than none at all.

jagabuwana · 21st April 2019, 02:03 PM

Alan is right - I preferred some dress rather than none at all and I also like Jogja and Solo dress much more than I do bugis. I understand that it's a mismatch but my mindset and approach isn't that of a collector's. I suppose this means that I don't intend to be strict about the dress of a keris that isn't a pusaka or has high value

David · 21st April 2019, 06:08 PM

Though Detlef may be suggesting you change the dress of this keris that was certainly not the point of my post. I'm just not sure what else you would like us to comment about though, other than the mismatched dress, since we discussed this blade in your other thread. It may have made more sense to simple attach these new photos to that old thread and i still might indeed combine these two threads since they are about the same keris.
Yes, there may indeed be a legitimate reason for this Bugis blade to be held in Javanese dress. I don't believe i was stating anything different by noting the mismatch, and Alan is indeed correct that there are many cases where Bugis, Balinese, Madurese or people from other outlying areas come to find themselves living within Javanese societies and therefore dress their native keris appropriately for that area. One possible, though not necessarily positive, clue to this would be whether this sheath appears to have been made specifically for this blade.

Sajen · 21st April 2019, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Though Detlef may be suggesting you change the dress of this keris....

No, Detlef just ask why Jaga don't try to find a matching Bugis sarung for this blade!

But agree with Alan that this dress is better as no dress.

Regards,
Detlef

jagabuwana · 22nd April 2019, 01:53 AM

Quote:

I'm just not sure what else you would like us to comment about though

Neither am I

The only reason I bumped the post was because it may have been ambiguous from my title that I was inviting comment, without any expectation about the nature of the comments themselves. Had there been no comments after that, then that's okay. So thank you David, Detlef and Alan for your comments and observations. You're right though, I should have used the old thread instead

A. G. Maisey · 22nd April 2019, 02:37 AM

OK Jaga, here's a comment.

I've just checked out the original thread, and yes, it was pretty neglected when you got it. You showed some pics in the first thread of what it looked like after a clean up --- vinegar I guess?

I think that if this was my keris I would have been happy to leave it like that, but you have some realgar, and you intend to try a stain with that. I suggest that you get back to us after you do the stain.

Incidentally, these most recent pics do not do justice to this blade. I suggest you try open shade, south facing if possible, photograph the blade by itself, not together with the wrongko, and in processing, remove cyan totally from from your image as the first step.I'm guessing you're doing the pics hand-held, so make sure your shutter speed and aperture will accommodate hand tremor and also give sufficient depth of field to show blade detail end to end. Focus in the center of the blade.

If you photograph with the wrongko, the wrongko colour can bleed into the blade giving the blade a lousy colour, if you do not use natural light, or you have reflected light from a coloured wall or something similar, that can also affect colour. This is actually a pretty nice blade, and it deserves much better photos.

jagabuwana · 1st June 2019, 01:29 PM

Vinegar indeed, Alan. Soaked for about a week in cheapo cooking grade vinegar.

Haven't gotten around to pounding the realgar down yet, but yes I'll be sure to report back with how it turns out.

Thanks for the photo tips, too. I'll have to source a better camera which I don't think should be too difficult.

A. G. Maisey · 1st June 2019, 02:34 PM

As long as you are using an actual camera that permits the things like F-stop, shutter and film speed to be adjusted, I reckon you do not really need a different camera. Its the technique that needs a bit of tweaking.

13th April 2019, 06:03 AM	#1
jagabuwana Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 281	Keris for sharing Hi all, Here's one of my keris. I picked it up in a really sorry crusty state (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=24017) and it cleaned up nicely. I tried to sulphur stain it but I wasn't at all satisfied with the result. I bought some realgar and will attempt to stain with that. Jogja dressings, bugis blade. My gratitude to a certain member of this forum who helped me complete this keris with his time, care and labour, teaching me a great deal all the while. I'm not sure he would like to be named, but I would be very happy for them to make themselves known Attached Images

20th April 2019, 09:07 AM	#2
jagabuwana Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 281	.. at the risk of sounding like I'm fishing, comments are welcome, though I can see why that would be ambiguous from the thread title.

20th April 2019, 09:16 PM	#4
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,779	I agree with everything David has stated. Why you haven't tried to give the blade a Bugis dress? Regards, Detlef

21st April 2019, 01:34 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	Yes, it is a mismatch, but something that a lot collectors do not realise is that old Bali, Madura, and Bugis blades are found reasonably frequently in old Javanese dress that we associate with the old centers of power.The reason for this is that men from these societies were recognised as very capable fighters. and were employed as mercenaries. Then there is the possibility that Jaga preferred to use this dress, rather than none at all.

21st April 2019, 02:03 PM	#6
jagabuwana Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 281	Alan is right - I preferred some dress rather than none at all and I also like Jogja and Solo dress much more than I do bugis. I understand that it's a mismatch but my mindset and approach isn't that of a collector's. I suppose this means that I don't intend to be strict about the dress of a keris that isn't a pusaka or has high value

21st April 2019, 06:08 PM	#7
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,123	Though Detlef may be suggesting you change the dress of this keris that was certainly not the point of my post. I'm just not sure what else you would like us to comment about though, other than the mismatched dress, since we discussed this blade in your other thread. It may have made more sense to simple attach these new photos to that old thread and i still might indeed combine these two threads since they are about the same keris. Yes, there may indeed be a legitimate reason for this Bugis blade to be held in Javanese dress. I don't believe i was stating anything different by noting the mismatch, and Alan is indeed correct that there are many cases where Bugis, Balinese, Madurese or people from other outlying areas come to find themselves living within Javanese societies and therefore dress their native keris appropriately for that area. One possible, though not necessarily positive, clue to this would be whether this sheath appears to have been made specifically for this blade.

22nd April 2019, 02:37 AM	#10
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	OK Jaga, here's a comment. I've just checked out the original thread, and yes, it was pretty neglected when you got it. You showed some pics in the first thread of what it looked like after a clean up --- vinegar I guess? I think that if this was my keris I would have been happy to leave it like that, but you have some realgar, and you intend to try a stain with that. I suggest that you get back to us after you do the stain. Incidentally, these most recent pics do not do justice to this blade. I suggest you try open shade, south facing if possible, photograph the blade by itself, not together with the wrongko, and in processing, remove cyan totally from from your image as the first step.I'm guessing you're doing the pics hand-held, so make sure your shutter speed and aperture will accommodate hand tremor and also give sufficient depth of field to show blade detail end to end. Focus in the center of the blade. If you photograph with the wrongko, the wrongko colour can bleed into the blade giving the blade a lousy colour, if you do not use natural light, or you have reflected light from a coloured wall or something similar, that can also affect colour. This is actually a pretty nice blade, and it deserves much better photos.

1st June 2019, 01:29 PM	#11
jagabuwana Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 281	Vinegar indeed, Alan. Soaked for about a week in cheapo cooking grade vinegar. Haven't gotten around to pounding the realgar down yet, but yes I'll be sure to report back with how it turns out. Thanks for the photo tips, too. I'll have to source a better camera which I don't think should be too difficult.

1st June 2019, 02:34 PM	#12
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	As long as you are using an actual camera that permits the things like F-stop, shutter and film speed to be adjusted, I reckon you do not really need a different camera. Its the technique that needs a bit of tweaking.