Is this a common Arab Saif ?

Jim McDougall · 14th April 2019, 05:33 PM

Beautiful sword!!!
I finally found pics of one of these sa'if I have had for many years. The hilt is of course more toward the 'karabela' style (often termed hawks head in some Arabian parlance) rather than this style which is known in same contexts.
According to what I recall from Lebedynsky these are of 18th c. but certainly would have been from later as well with traditions continuing.

Mine has a highly polished blade as well, which I always shuddered at the thought of it being chrome, but resolved as here that it was highly polished.
It has an inscription which I take to be commemorative as it reads"
"...the Islamic sword named after Muhammed al Hassan, the commander of all Faithful, the one who God choose victorious, was drawn in the year 1119H."

The year I believe is 1689, but I am uncertain how accurately I have relayed this or the inscription. However it does as noted seem commemorative.

The motif in the silver repousse does correspond with similar found in Hyderabad, and as has been noted, there was a long tradition of Yemeni (Hadhramaut) mercenary forces to Hyderabad and much of the mounting seems to have been made there.
The styling also includes very much Arabian character such as the 'aghrab' at scabbard throat mount.

The scabbard here is also of interest as it is with silver band wrap gadrooned over red velveteen, an affectation known well in Bukharen context. It seems discussions here some time back revealed strong ties between Bukhara and Yemen religiously and diplomatically. While this suggests a Yemeni production but could have of course been transmitted to Hyderabad and filtered into the making of mounts there.

I cannot see the curious mount above the baldric rings, but agree with Fernando, this is I believe to secure the sword in the scabbard. It seems I had read somewhere it was something like a 'safety' on a pistol, and indicator of peaceful contact despite a weapon being worn, where such was considered a threatening or disrespectful demeanor.

fernando · 15th April 2019, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

... I cannot see the curious mount above the baldric rings, but agree with Fernando, this is I believe to secure the sword in the scabbard. It seems I had read somewhere it was something like a 'safety' on a pistol, and indicator of peaceful contact despite a weapon being worn, where such was considered a threatening or disrespectful demeanor.

Whether the 'safety' posture is not implausible, the fact is that blades often need to be secured inside their scabbards ... like in this Saif of mine.
It remains for me to figure out what kind of material/s was used for the securing cord; whether some stretching material or solid string, which tension applied when looping it around the quillon finial would suffice; reason why i haven't yet took the scabbard to the local silver smith to replicate the real thing and remedy with a arrangement made by myself, with some tense (leather?) cord, clipped with some silver wire bits.

.

Jim McDougall · 15th April 2019, 04:51 PM

Thanks Fernando.
While the 'safety' bit is from some apocryphal note seen 'passim' in reading I cannot place some time ago, it does seem to have a degree of viability.
In another equally obscure recollection, it does seem that on some Islamic edged weapons there are strings of beads, in somewhat the manner of Catholic rosaries, but in this case having to do with the Family of the Prophet ...but I cannot speak further to this. Just another possibility.

14th April 2019, 05:33 PM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,191	Beautiful sword!!! I finally found pics of one of these sa'if I have had for many years. The hilt is of course more toward the 'karabela' style (often termed hawks head in some Arabian parlance) rather than this style which is known in same contexts. According to what I recall from Lebedynsky these are of 18th c. but certainly would have been from later as well with traditions continuing. Mine has a highly polished blade as well, which I always shuddered at the thought of it being chrome, but resolved as here that it was highly polished. It has an inscription which I take to be commemorative as it reads" "...the Islamic sword named after Muhammed al Hassan, the commander of all Faithful, the one who God choose victorious, was drawn in the year 1119H." The year I believe is 1689, but I am uncertain how accurately I have relayed this or the inscription. However it does as noted seem commemorative. The motif in the silver repousse does correspond with similar found in Hyderabad, and as has been noted, there was a long tradition of Yemeni (Hadhramaut) mercenary forces to Hyderabad and much of the mounting seems to have been made there. The styling also includes very much Arabian character such as the 'aghrab' at scabbard throat mount. The scabbard here is also of interest as it is with silver band wrap gadrooned over red velveteen, an affectation known well in Bukharen context. It seems discussions here some time back revealed strong ties between Bukhara and Yemen religiously and diplomatically. While this suggests a Yemeni production but could have of course been transmitted to Hyderabad and filtered into the making of mounts there. I cannot see the curious mount above the baldric rings, but agree with Fernando, this is I believe to secure the sword in the scabbard. It seems I had read somewhere it was something like a 'safety' on a pistol, and indicator of peaceful contact despite a weapon being worn, where such was considered a threatening or disrespectful demeanor. Attached Images Last edited by Jim McDougall; 14th April 2019 at 05:44 PM.

15th April 2019, 04:51 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,191	Thanks Fernando. While the 'safety' bit is from some apocryphal note seen 'passim' in reading I cannot place some time ago, it does seem to have a degree of viability. In another equally obscure recollection, it does seem that on some Islamic edged weapons there are strings of beads, in somewhat the manner of Catholic rosaries, but in this case having to do with the Family of the Prophet ...but I cannot speak further to this. Just another possibility.