A Special Kampillan

[MaharlikaTimawa]

Originally Posted by Battara

My understanding is the there were a variety of kampilan forms among different tribes in the Philippines, even a Tagalog variant. What these looked like, however, is a good question. I forget the name, but there are some Spanish codex miniature paintings have some folks with kampilans in their hands.

Isn't the general consensus that Filipino non-muslim metal smiths were incapable of making longer weapons such as the kampilan or the panabas,
which is why they were only used farmer tools such as the bolo as opposed to swords that were mostly exclusive for fighting.

[xasterix]

Originally Posted by MaharlikaTimawa

Isn't the general consensus that Filipino non-muslim metal smiths were incapable of making longer weapons such as the kampilan or the panabas,
which is why they were only used farmer tools such as the bolo as opposed to swords that were mostly exclusive for fighting.

My apologies, am not aware of such a consensus...there are documented antique pinuti, sansibar, talibong, tabak, and minasbad that reach up to 30 inches blade length and more. Some of them are featured here somewhere. The longest non-kampilan traditional Filipino blade that I know of is the Ilokano talunasan. It has a 36-inch long blade.

[xasterix]

In the pics:

GM Giron with his family's antique Talunasan, blade length at 36 inches
A 100-year old Pinuti (Lawihan variant), blade length at 31 inches

[Sajen]

Some other very long Philippine non Muslim blades:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=tenegre

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=16947 This one is 77 cm long without scabbard

[David]

Originally Posted by xasterix

My apologies, am not aware of such a consensus...there are documented antique pinuti, sansibar, talibong, tabak, and minasbad that reach up to 30 inches blade length and more. Some of them are featured here somewhere. The longest non-kampilan traditional Filipino blade that I know of is the Ilokano talunasan. It has a 36-inch long blade.

What you say is undoubtably true over starting at some point in historic past, but my sense of what MaharlikaTimawa was questioning was whether they were capable of forging such swords at the time of Magellan. So showing an 100 year-old antique Talunasan from GM Giron family does not really answer the question of whether or not the blades that Magellan was finally hacked down with in 1521 were indeed kamplian. Does anyone have an evidence of kampilian that are actually THAT old. Not saying they didn't exist, but i have never seen the empirical evidence to support the claim.

[Battara]

David I would like to see an example of any blade that far back. However, in a tropical environment plus age as you know, these are conditions that almost prohibit even Indonesian keris or any type of steel to exist. That being said, so far no kampilans but a couple of buried daggers from the 12th century are now on display in Filipino museums.

[Ian]

This is a timely topic. I have just this week received a copy of Wilhelm Solheim's book on The Archaeology of Central Philippines* that described his PhD thesis work in the early 1950s. He draws on specimens he collected mainly from the Visayas and Palawan at that time, and those collected by Dr Carl Guthe of the University of Michigan in the 1920s, as well as material held in the National Museum, Manila in the late 1950s. The specimens are not dated and little is said about the age of the various examples he describes, but they appear to predate contact with Europeans.

Much of the discussion is devoted to pottery, and linking pottery styles between the various sites. There are, however, a number of iron items described, including spear heads, knives and swords. There are a couple of black and white plates that I will scan and post of these ancient weapons. The swords seem to be on the short side, much as we see in the Visayas today and in the last 100 or so years.

I had expected more about weapons when I purchased this book, but there is a disappointing lack of detail about the weapons and other iron items, with more attention directed to the pottery. Most of the blades appear to be well suited as tools, although there are several weapon-like pieces as well. One item stood out--it appears to be a keris.

More to come when I get to my scanner.

*Wilhelm G. Solheim, II. The Archaeology of Central Philippines. A Study Chiefly of the Iron Age and its Relationships. Monograph 10, National Institute of Science and Technology, Manila. Manila Bureau of Printing, 1964, 235 pp, 48 plates.


Here are the two plates of edged items published by Soldheim. They represent both edged tools and weapons. Subsequent work has attributed these items as coming from the 12th to 15th C. CE. The keris-like object is seen in Plate 47 (j). This item is in the Wurthe Collection, University of Michigan and migueldiaz previously posted a much better, more recent picture of this blade (here).


.

[mross]

Originally Posted by Battara

David I would like to see an example of any blade that far back. However, in a tropical environment plus age as you know, these are conditions that almost prohibit even Indonesian keris or any type of steel to exist. That being said, so far no kampilans but a couple of buried daggers from the 12th century are now on display in Filipino museums.

This makes logical and more importantly economic sense. Do to the scarcity of steel in the region when older weapons get damaged to a point they are no longer useful I would think the steel would be recycled. The Europeans did this with old armor etc. I'm not versed in the rituals of the Philippines but I don't recall their warriors being buried with weapons like the Vikings. Even if they where the climate is not conducive to those weapons surviving.

[Spunjer]

kinda late in the party, but all i can say is, that's one gorjeez kampy, Charles!! thank you for showing that to me at the show!!

[Ferguson]

Charles, I am truly happy that this wonderful example has come into your care!

Steve

[MaharlikaTimawa]

Originally Posted by David

What you say is undoubtably true over starting at some point in historic past, but my sense of what MaharlikaTimawa was questioning was whether they were capable of forging such swords at the time of Magellan. So showing an 100 year-old antique Talunasan from GM Giron family does not really answer the question of whether or not the blades that Magellan was finally hacked down with in 1521 were indeed kamplian. Does anyone have an evidence of kampilian that are actually THAT old. Not saying they didn't exist, but i have never seen the empirical evidence to support the claim.

Yes, this is what I meant when I refer to swords of the more animistic groups in the Philippines prior to having such a heavy spanish influence on their blades.