Kaskara Cross-guards—a second essay for comment by Ed Hunley

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 6th April 2019, 06:02 AM

THANK YOU ED ..A great reply and I enjoyed reading your treatise. I actually think the British with only about 47 casualties stopped most blade to blade exchanges by effective gun and cannon fire though the 21st did come into close contact where blades were encountered and the enemy grouping included spear regiments and sword regiments …

The pilgrimage you speak of was according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandinka_people in 1324AD after which middle east Muslims were attracted to visit West Africa..

In Manding Society I thought the Leathersmiths had a strong position as they converted earlier than the other artisan groups and certainly the leather work on the sword is the highlight of the sword and richly ornate particularly the Baldric straps...hilt etc whereas the blade is imported..French Cav and German.

Edster · 6th April 2019, 02:26 PM

Good paper on Sudanese fighting styles is "Oral Traditions Among the Shukriyya" Ibrahim al-Hardallo in Directions in Sudanese Linguistics & Folklore, Institute of African & Asian Studies, Univ Of Khartoum, 1975. I only have a xerox copy.

Article describes traditions of battles between the Shukriyya and the Batahin, Hamaj and others in the Butana plain (east of the Nile) c.1720. Often tribes fought preliminary battles between opposing champions and mounted knight groups before the tribes went at it in a maley (sic).The matter could be settled without a lot of bloodshed. Arms were 3-6 javelins, a spear and sword. Sometimes they fought mounted and others on foot. In a certain battle Abu Ali of the Shuk. cut off Sigmud's head. Another battle including guns and seven Shuk. knights. Shuk. won and captured many swords, spears and quantities of horse-armour.

I don't think there is any doubt about the fighting role of swords in Eastern Sudan. No doubt "swords'" cross-guards evolved into those we know as kaskara sometime before 1879 the Shuk. knight shown in the Fig. 30 in this thread.

Best,
Ed

ariel · 7th April 2019, 03:56 AM

Outstanding research by Ed with very important information!

Similarly, excellent discussion by Ibrahiim and Ian.

The entire text is well deserving permanent placement into the Classics section.

My hat is off to all participants. A+++!

Edster · 7th April 2019, 01:36 PM

Thanks Ariel. It took all those involved to make it work.

Best,
Ed

6th April 2019, 06:02 AM	#1
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	THANK YOU ED ..A great reply and I enjoyed reading your treatise. I actually think the British with only about 47 casualties stopped most blade to blade exchanges by effective gun and cannon fire though the 21st did come into close contact where blades were encountered and the enemy grouping included spear regiments and sword regiments … The pilgrimage you speak of was according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandinka_people in 1324AD after which middle east Muslims were attracted to visit West Africa.. In Manding Society I thought the Leathersmiths had a strong position as they converted earlier than the other artisan groups and certainly the leather work on the sword is the highlight of the sword and richly ornate particularly the Baldric straps...hilt etc whereas the blade is imported..French Cav and German. Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 6th April 2019 at 06:18 AM.

6th April 2019, 02:26 PM	#2
Edster Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 411	Good paper on Sudanese fighting styles is "Oral Traditions Among the Shukriyya" Ibrahim al-Hardallo in Directions in Sudanese Linguistics & Folklore, Institute of African & Asian Studies, Univ Of Khartoum, 1975. I only have a xerox copy. Article describes traditions of battles between the Shukriyya and the Batahin, Hamaj and others in the Butana plain (east of the Nile) c.1720. Often tribes fought preliminary battles between opposing champions and mounted knight groups before the tribes went at it in a maley (sic).The matter could be settled without a lot of bloodshed. Arms were 3-6 javelins, a spear and sword. Sometimes they fought mounted and others on foot. In a certain battle Abu Ali of the Shuk. cut off Sigmud's head. Another battle including guns and seven Shuk. knights. Shuk. won and captured many swords, spears and quantities of horse-armour. I don't think there is any doubt about the fighting role of swords in Eastern Sudan. No doubt "swords'" cross-guards evolved into those we know as kaskara sometime before 1879 the Shuk. knight shown in the Fig. 30 in this thread. Best, Ed

7th April 2019, 03:56 AM	#3
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Outstanding research by Ed with very important information! Similarly, excellent discussion by Ibrahiim and Ian. The entire text is well deserving permanent placement into the Classics section. My hat is off to all participants. A+++!

7th April 2019, 01:36 PM	#4
Edster Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 411	Thanks Ariel. It took all those involved to make it work. Best, Ed