Kaskara

[Edster]

Agip/ENI Logo. It's actually a dog according to company site.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Edster

Agip/ENI Logo. It's actually a dog according to company site.

Thanks Ed. I think when we get into stylized animals in symbolic devices etc. it gets pretty hard to determine just what they actually are intended to represent. This looks like it has a mane.

I recall studying the mark of Toledo swordsmith Julian Del Rey from 17th c. which to me looked like a rampant lion. In colloquial terms (I think beginning from a reference in Cervantes) it began to be called the 'perillo' (=little dog).Possibly an allusion to the famed 'running wolf' of Passau on German blades.


I guess as per Rorschach its whatever each person perceives


Still dont get the six legs.

[Jim McDougall]

Getting back to these deeply stamped lions, while the quality and character of the mark seems to indicate a European stamp, I still cannot find anything among known European marks that corresponds to a lion in this stance.

Also the depth of the stamp is much like the cross and orb cases seen here, but the cross and orb was always in blade center not forte. Also the cross is atypical and not European. This brings me again to the idea that perhaps there were stamps used by artisans in Sudanese or other entrepots that brought in blades whether trade or other native makers.

The similarity and configuration of these three examples with stamped lions in the attachments....especially the center and bottom, both on kaskara. The Kassalawi makers it seems had stamps, which degenerated over time. Pm the one with the flower (?) it pretty well matches the other lion which is by itself.

[William Fox]

Jim, the centre and bottom blades both seem to have a similar configuration in edge geometry and fuller position. And both lions are stamped at roughly the same place on the blade. Must be a connection in origin.

Does anyone have any knowledge of the scabbard and scabbard embellishments of kaskara? I wonder if those little tassels and added details represent tribe, region or status?

[Edster]

Jim, Both William's sword and Stephen Wood's sword and markings from this 2009 post are virtually identical.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=10043

Both have a cross & orb and "lion" as noted by Stephen in Pallme (Travels in Kordofan, p.298) and attributed as Austrian imports. (William's has the 4-pointed mark (applied by two strikes) in front of the lion that Stephen's does not. This mark is unique to me, and I wonder why it is on William's and not Stephen's.) Also, I agree that these marks are not from Kull.

Both swords have a more rounded point, I think more in common with imports than the more common pointed locally forged examples. Thus, I tend to agree that both blades are imports, but of unknown manufacture.

If the cross & orbs are actually Funj sticks & drums property marks these swords could be from at least the early 19th Cent (pre 1821). That may be why the common marks are unknown.

The "lion" is rather stylized with internal fur, but the open mouth, curled tail and especially the rump look unnatural to me.

William, the scabbard looks rather recent to me, certainly not as old as the sword. Also, most are dyed a reddish brown rather than black. I don't think the scribbed designs are indicative and the strings are as far as I know just for looks.

Regards,
Ed

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you Ed for the link to Stephens post which described the Pallme reference, key to these markings of lion and cross and orb.
Ignatius Pallme, a German traveler, explored Kordofan in 1837-39 and his book "Travels in Kordofan" was published in 1844. In this reference he draws a picture of the cross and orb and states that Austrian blades brought in had this and a lion on the blades.

This sets a date of c. 1837 for this marking combination, and the blades said to be rounded off at the point. It would seem that these blades, while of course rehilted numerous times, must have come into Sudan around this time.

In later times during the Mahdiyya, it was noted that the Mahdi himself had a blade with the double headed eagle of the Holy Roman Empire on a sword he had. Obviously this would indirectly support the idea that Austrian blades were coming into Sudanese regions in years before just as Pallme (1844) had noted.

I think this brings an important perspective on the vintage of these blades with the lion and cross and orb, and that they were likely from Austria.
Now if we could just find a maker using these marks in this manner, perhaps Styrian?

[Jim McDougall]

The more I look at William's blade, the more the conundrum of its markings puzzle me. I cannot get past the idea that this is a native made blade and of the early 20th c. While the elliptical fuller is of a form well known on many European blades, there was typically a forte of some sort on European blades .

As I earlier noted, the cross and orb on European blades was typically used at fuller terminal and at blade center, not 'in' the fuller and near the hilt. It was not a makers mark but more of a talismanic augmentation. In Sudan, it seems a regularly seen convention to place these kinds of marks at the blade root.
We have seen in Briggs (1965) that the curious marks from his work (a strange geometric device that Briggs believed derived from either Kull or other Solingen marks) were typically placed in this location. Other marks which resemble stylized 'death head' of Kull also appear at blade root in variation.

These marks are approximated by Sudanese artisans and deeply stamped much in the European manner. Here I would note that the cross and orb on William's blade is not centered in the fuller, where it should not be in the first place if indeed European.

The hexagonal section of the blade is not in the manner of such blades from Solingen also, and in this case seems sharply beveled steel stock rather than forged in typical hexagonal fashion.

This leads me to the curious case of the lion, which as it appears in two blades and in the same orientation and appears to be from the same stamp, suggests the armourer was following perhaps a well emplaced tradition ….as noted by Pallme (1844).

The Pallme reference has given us I believe a red herring as well as the note of these marks as he observed in 1837-39. In his book he illustrates the cross and orb, but only notes a lion was also applied to these blades he presumed were from Austria. There is no image of the lion, or for that matter how these were oriented on these blades. I suspect that his assumption the blades came from Austria was because he was cataloguing the goods imported from Austria...however these may well have been Solingen blades. We know that Solingen blades did have standing lions and cross and orb in many cases particularly Kull examples.

Added to the lion mark on William's blade is the curious 4 point mark, which while in the manner of the many indeterminate 'Rorshach' marks well catalogued by Sir James Mann (Wallace Coll. 1962)...appears perhaps to be a water lily. While uncertain of this symbolic meaning, it seems strategically placed next to the lion, and suggesting possibly some sort of allegoric theme.

Clearly we have much more research to do on the methods and significance of blades being marked in Sudanese (including Kordofan and Darfur) contexts and the nature of the stamps they appear to have used.


In attached photos the line illustrations are from Briggs (1965) and the type of lion I think was alluded to in Pallme (1844). The 'fly' marking seems to have perhaps (as suggested by Briggs) evolved into the curious geometric device also pictured . These occur in various forms as does the strange figure with 'eyes' thought to resemble Kulls death head.

Note the lion 'variant' from a kaskara said to have been purchased before 1975 in Asmara. Clearly the stamps which may have been used earlier (these with coiled tail) have been lost or damaged or perhaps another maker using a different one?