French hunting hanger sword, Hussar/Pandour style?

fernando · 24th February 2019, 08:17 PM

C'mon Wayne, you sure can do better with picturing the blade details. Chose a different light, or and a different angle, i don't know ... just try

.

kronckew · 24th February 2019, 08:35 PM

Been a bit foggy here, I'll try when it gets a bit sunny.

I'll see if some light rust removal helps...

fernando · 24th February 2019, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

... Been a bit foggy here ...

Foggy ... in Britain ?

.

M ELEY · 25th February 2019, 01:37 AM

Nice hanger, Wayne. If you use the contrast feature on your Photo Gallery pic, you can often bring out the details better. Not a lot t add other than saying the sun and moon symbols were common on blades from this period, cannibalistic in nature and not necessarily exclusive to the pandour styles.

ariel · 25th February 2019, 03:44 AM

I am sure you meant Kabbalistic, not cannibalistic, but your computer decided differently:-)
I have to fight with my iPad 24/7....So far I am usually winning, but the bugger gives me good fight. I am afraid that AI will prevail at the end.

Kmaddock · 25th February 2019, 10:07 AM

Bit busy here so a quick reply
v nice sword you have
First impression was that the cross guard looks similar to a Chinese Jian?
I can post images later
regards to all
Ken

Jim McDougall · 25th February 2019, 04:25 PM

Excellent observation Ken!!! That crossguard is indeed reminiscent of a Chinese jian.
This is as noted a hirshchfanger/ hunting sword of the 18th c. and these were often with blades emblazoned with cabbalistic motif which could include a range of themes usually cosmological and or with magic and occult devices.

These were typical of these typically status oriented swords that appealed to the gentry and upper echelon....the hunt was of course much like golf is in todays executive world, a medium for gatherings of prestige.

The 'fads' of these times included often fanciful applications of occult and current fashion, and in the 18th century there was a deep attraction to things 'Oriental' . There were even Chinese artisans in East Europe, the Netherlands who were decorating weapons and their elements.

The 'Pandours' were regiments of 'Oriental' style troops of Austro_Hungary which included ethnic groups from the Balkans and Easten Europe including largely Croatians. Their exotic dress, and weaponry , was much favored by officers of cavalry where these units operated as auxiliary forces.

The appeal of their 'renegade' nature and fearsome reputation appealed to the hubris of such male fashion throughout Europe as the 'orientalized' and mysteriously emblazoned blades and fancy hilts recalled the very swords used by many Pandours.

While this intriguing example looks like many swords associated with Pandours, it is 'of the form' known to have been used, and likely copied in years following as Pandour type units became popular though the rest of the 18th century into 'FreiKorps' type units into Napoloeonic period.

M ELEY · 25th February 2019, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

I am sure you meant Kabbalistic, not cannibalistic, but your computer decided differently:-)
I have to fight with my iPad 24/7....So far I am usually winning, but the bugger gives me good fight. I am afraid that AI will prevail at the end.

Ariel, you are correct in that the spell checker got the better of me. But then again, perhaps the sword was used by cannibals?

Victrix · 26th February 2019, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

Ariel, you are correct in that the spell checker got the better of me. But then again, perhaps the sword was used by cannibals?

Sorry, but could not resist posting this...

kronckew · 28th February 2019, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

Nice hanger, Wayne. If you use the contrast feature on your Photo Gallery pic, you can often bring out the details better.... the sun and moon symbols were common on blades from this period, cannibalistic in nature and not necessarily exclusive to the pandour styles.

The photos above have already been 'enhanced'. I took an HDR photo of one moon and tweaked it with HDR software, then ran it thru an intelligent forensic enhancement filter to show what it originally may have looked like...

(OK, the Intelligent enhancement filter was me doing a google search and pinching an image)

25th February 2019, 03:44 AM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I am sure you meant Kabbalistic, not cannibalistic, but your computer decided differently:-) I have to fight with my iPad 24/7....So far I am usually winning, but the bugger gives me good fight. I am afraid that AI will prevail at the end. Last edited by ariel; 25th February 2019 at 04:59 AM.

24th February 2019, 08:17 PM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	C'mon Wayne, you sure can do better with picturing the blade details. Chose a different light, or and a different angle, i don't know ... just try .

24th February 2019, 08:35 PM	#2
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,250	Been a bit foggy here, I'll try when it gets a bit sunny. I'll see if some light rust removal helps...

25th February 2019, 01:37 AM	#4
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,196	Nice hanger, Wayne. If you use the contrast feature on your Photo Gallery pic, you can often bring out the details better. Not a lot t add other than saying the sun and moon symbols were common on blades from this period, cannibalistic in nature and not necessarily exclusive to the pandour styles.

25th February 2019, 10:07 AM	#6
Kmaddock Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Ireland Posts: 545	Bit busy here so a quick reply v nice sword you have First impression was that the cross guard looks similar to a Chinese Jian? I can post images later regards to all Ken

25th February 2019, 04:25 PM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,599	Excellent observation Ken!!! That crossguard is indeed reminiscent of a Chinese jian. This is as noted a hirshchfanger/ hunting sword of the 18th c. and these were often with blades emblazoned with cabbalistic motif which could include a range of themes usually cosmological and or with magic and occult devices. These were typical of these typically status oriented swords that appealed to the gentry and upper echelon....the hunt was of course much like golf is in todays executive world, a medium for gatherings of prestige. The 'fads' of these times included often fanciful applications of occult and current fashion, and in the 18th century there was a deep attraction to things 'Oriental' . There were even Chinese artisans in East Europe, the Netherlands who were decorating weapons and their elements. The 'Pandours' were regiments of 'Oriental' style troops of Austro_Hungary which included ethnic groups from the Balkans and Easten Europe including largely Croatians. Their exotic dress, and weaponry , was much favored by officers of cavalry where these units operated as auxiliary forces. The appeal of their 'renegade' nature and fearsome reputation appealed to the hubris of such male fashion throughout Europe as the 'orientalized' and mysteriously emblazoned blades and fancy hilts recalled the very swords used by many Pandours. While this intriguing example looks like many swords associated with Pandours, it is 'of the form' known to have been used, and likely copied in years following as Pandour type units became popular though the rest of the 18th century into 'FreiKorps' type units into Napoloeonic period.