Jamdhar katari - a theory

fernando · 23rd February 2019, 10:34 AM

Ruler Maharaja Kumar Isri Singh in a pool of water, bare-chested, and in hand-to-hand combat with a crocodile. He has just plunged his katar into the creature, which has evidently been caught by surprise while eating.
(The Met)

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mahratt · 23rd February 2019, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

Ruler Maharaja Kumar Isri Singh in a pool of water, bare-chested, and in hand-to-hand combat with a crocodile. He has just plunged his katar into the creature, which has evidently been caught by surprise while eating.
(The Met)

Very good example. He perfectly confirms the words of the Mercenary. A miniature from the Metropolitan Museum shows the opposition of man and a large predatory animal.

Mercenary · 23rd February 2019, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

Ruler Maharaja Kumar Isri Singh in a pool of water, bare-chested, and in hand-to-hand combat with a crocodile. He has just plunged his katar into the creature, which has evidently been caught by surprise while eating.
(The Met)

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Thank you very much.

Quote:

It is known that Ibn Battuta, an Algerian travelling in India in the 14th century, described an attack with a katar ..

It is very interesting to study what kind of daggers were called "katar" in India. I did it. But not from secondary sources.

Quote:

(Dr Tobias Capwell).
(Dr. Jorge Caravana)
(Rainer Daehnhardt)
(E. Jaiwant Paul)
(Cameron Stone)
(Shirayan Vajramutthii Yuddha Shastra)

Excellent research. Thank you, it's not just an empty talk. I very respect it.

But who are these people? Among them are travelers in India in the 16-18 centuries?

P.S. How is nice when you can believe everything that is written in book or spoken on TV. But in the case of East it is.... the wrong way.

Mercenary · 23rd February 2019, 11:44 AM

All these images are a typical (standard) plot for illustrations of "Babur-name" in Akbar's time. Accordingly, warriors are armed in the same manner as the Mughals in the end of the 16th century.
On one of the images Babur fights with the Rajputs (description of the events of 1527). But we can see only Mughals weapons of the end of the 16th century. Can you indicate Rajputs there if not to take into account on what side the artillery is?
In another image, Babur fights with Ahmad Tambal (description of the events of 1499). Before Babur's invasion of India! Again Mughals weapons of the end of the 16th century.
Two images from one source, same time and even one workshop. Unlike images with scenes of hunting.

I know how according to Turkic warrior tradition an enemy was pulled off a horse, thrown to the ground and he was beaten with a dagger into open places or his head was cut off.
Someone may think that in the time of Akbar warriors were fighting on the horses with daggers? May be. They were trying to penetrate armour? May be.
No problems. Dig it and I will happy to learn something new for all of us. But as long as it is not, I'd rather go watch National Geographic on TV.

23rd February 2019, 10:34 AM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	What a party ... Ruler Maharaja Kumar Isri Singh in a pool of water, bare-chested, and in hand-to-hand combat with a crocodile. He has just plunged his katar into the creature, which has evidently been caught by surprise while eating. (The Met) . Attached Images

23rd February 2019, 11:44 AM	#4
Mercenary Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 428	All these images are a typical (standard) plot for illustrations of "Babur-name" in Akbar's time. Accordingly, warriors are armed in the same manner as the Mughals in the end of the 16th century. On one of the images Babur fights with the Rajputs (description of the events of 1527). But we can see only Mughals weapons of the end of the 16th century. Can you indicate Rajputs there if not to take into account on what side the artillery is? In another image, Babur fights with Ahmad Tambal (description of the events of 1499). Before Babur's invasion of India! Again Mughals weapons of the end of the 16th century. Two images from one source, same time and even one workshop. Unlike images with scenes of hunting. I know how according to Turkic warrior tradition an enemy was pulled off a horse, thrown to the ground and he was beaten with a dagger into open places or his head was cut off. Someone may think that in the time of Akbar warriors were fighting on the horses with daggers? May be. They were trying to penetrate armour? May be. No problems. Dig it and I will happy to learn something new for all of us. But as long as it is not, I'd rather go watch National Geographic on TV. Attached Images Last edited by Mercenary; 23rd February 2019 at 12:36 PM.