Unknown sword. Cuban, philippines?

[Jim McDougall]

With regard to the cross influence comments in my previous post......the so called Berber sabres, which we now know were from Cuban/Dominican contexts (later seen in Spanish Morocco 1920s)……….often had reprofiled cavalry blades with a tip that had a resemblance to those of the kampilan from Philippines and environs.
The Moro kampilan is shown to illustrate possible influence, though the Spanish version is of course less elaborate.

[David]

Maybe it's just me Jim, but i see no similarity whatsoever, either in the tip or over all blade profile, between this Berber saber and a kampilan. Am i missing something?

[Ferguson]

Did some googling and found that it is made by Fernando Esser Elberfeld. You can google that name and see the horse mark and other examples of swords and knives made by them. I THINK it was made in Germany. There was a Fernando Esser company in Germany, and an area of a city called Elberfeld. It was it's own city until 1929. There was also a Fernando Esser in Solingen.

Hope this helps.

Steve

[carlos]

Originally Posted by Ferguson

Did some googling and found that it is made by Fernando Esser Elberfeld. You can google that name and see the horse mark and other examples of swords and knives made by them. I THINK it was made in Germany. There was a Fernando Esser company in Germany, and an area of a city called Elberfeld. It was it's own city until 1929. There was also a Fernando Esser in Solingen.

Hope this helps.

Steve

Thank you very much!!!!
Your information is very good!!!!
Thanks

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Ferguson

Did some googling and found that it is made by Fernando Esser Elberfeld. You can google that name and see the horse mark and other examples of swords and knives made by them. I THINK it was made in Germany. There was a Fernando Esser company in Germany, and an area of a city called Elberfeld. It was it's own city until 1929. There was also a Fernando Esser in Solingen.

Elberfeld get suburbanized to Wuppertal in 1929. His name is Ferdinand, not Fernando. I've googeled as well and in short there is told on a german site that he started in the 1870s to make high quality machetes for the middle and South American market. Hope I don't need to translate the complete site! https://www.holzwerken.de/museum/hae...erdinand.phtml

BTW, great work Steve!

Regards,
Detlef

[Ferguson]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Elberfeld get suburbanized to Wuppertal in 1929. His name is Ferdinand, not Fernando. I've googeled as well and in short there is told on a german site that he started in the 1870s to make high quality machetes for the middle and South American market. Hope I don't need to translate the complete site! https://www.holzwerken.de/museum/hae...erdinand.phtml

BTW, great work Steve!

Regards,
Detlef

Good work Detlef! Yes, the original company seems Ferdinand Esser, but sometime in the late 1800's swords and machetes showed up marked Fernando Esser. There are a lot of swords out there with the mark "Fernando Esser Elberfeld", above "Acero Fundido" (cast steel?) over "Garantizado".

From the webpage that you cited:

"In 1889 a branch was founded in Hamburg, which had emerged from the company Wm. Ahrens & Co., 1890 a branch in Paris. In 1894 Ferdinand Esser died.
The company belongs today under the name "Fernando Esser & Cia. GmbH" to the brothers Mannesmann AG in Remscheid. 4) "

Steve

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Ferguson

Good work Detlef! Yes, the original company seems Ferdinand Esser, but sometime in the late 1800's swords and machetes showed up marked Fernando Esser. There are a lot of swords out there with the mark "Fernando Esser Elberfeld", above "Acero Fundido" (cast steel?) over "Garantizado".

From the webpage that you cited:

"In 1889 a branch was founded in Hamburg, which had emerged from the company Wm. Ahrens & Co., 1890 a branch in Paris. In 1894 Ferdinand Esser died.
The company belongs today under the name "Fernando Esser & Cia. GmbH" to the brothers Mannesmann AG in Remscheid. 4) "

Steve

Thank you Steve,
But the main work was done by you! And a very good translation indeed, wow!

Best regards,
Detlef

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Ferguson

Did some googling and found that it is made by Fernando Esser Elberfeld. You can google that name and see the horse mark and other examples of swords and knives made by them. I THINK it was made in Germany. There was a Fernando Esser company in Germany, and an area of a city called Elberfeld. It was it's own city until 1929. There was also a Fernando Esser in Solingen.

Hope this helps.

Steve

In accord with Detlef and Carlos.............excellent research Steve!!! Thank you!

This well supports the idea of the Cuban/South American possibility for this weapon. In references describing swords and weapons of these regions, the presence of Solingen products prevailed well through latter 19th into 20th c.

[ariel]

As to the re-profiling European blades in Morocco since 1920:
Years ago I visited Versailles, and saw a big oil picture of a battle between the French and the Berbers. One Berber warrior ( AFAIR, semirecunbent, right lower corner) was holding a sword that was exactly like the infamous " Berber" one , even with a "reverse" point.
I did not make a picture of it or the artist's name/ date. Stupid of me.....

Perhaps, one of the Forumites plans to go to France or one of the native French Forumites happens to visit Versaiiles. Please look for that big oil and get the info. Would be very helpful and will answer a lot of questions.

[midelburgo]

The opening sword remembers me of the Spanish anti-rioting blunt sword. Possibly was some kind of common influence.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by ariel

As to the re-profiling European blades in Morocco since 1920:
Years ago I visited Versailles, and saw a big oil picture of a battle between the French and the Berbers. One Berber warrior ( AFAIR, semirecunbent, right lower corner) was holding a sword that was exactly like the infamous " Berber" one , even with a "reverse" point.
I did not make a picture of it or the artist's name/ date. Stupid of me.....

Perhaps, one of the Forumites plans to go to France or one of the native French Forumites happens to visit Versaiiles. Please look for that big oil and get the info. Would be very helpful and will answer a lot of questions.

I would have loved to see this painting......it is always great to have some illustration of the swords we study in context of their use.


These swords (so called 'Berber') were not reprofiled in Morocco, they were brought there by conscripts and forces from Caribbean regions to handle insurgences in the Spanish colonies there. It has always been interesting to see the 'vintage' British blades which ended up in these Central and South American contexts from mid to latter 19th c.
As previously noted, the 'Spanish Main' was quite the conduit for the diffusion of these elements and influences in these times.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by David

Maybe it's just me Jim, but i see no similarity whatsoever, either in the tip or over all blade profile, between this Berber saber and a kampilan. Am i missing something?

I am clearly uninitiated in the arms of Philippines, Indonesia, Malaysia et al, so the comparison is admittedly free association and obviously somewhat tenuous. However, what I was noting primarily was the tip of the kampilan, and that the top of what would be the back of the blade (opposing the cutting edge) at the tip projects out in a curious extended point.


With the kampilan this point and the radius of the cutting edge below it is somewhat artistically enhanced. I know that this is not always the case on all kampilans, and that the representation is debated, I think Cato suggests something about a Hornbill bird (?).


What I was seeing in the 'Berber' sabres is that the blades (many, if not most I have seen) had cavalry blades from M1796 British sabres. What was puzzling is that these blades were much favored for their enlarged 'hatchet' tips in many ethnographic settings.

So why in the world were these blade tips reprofiled into this deliberate shape with the point at the top (back of blade) extended in degree resmembling the prow of a boat? and the blade below radiused in the same manner as the kampilan in effect.
It has been suggested that the perpendicular extension (handle) on the scabbard was to grasp while withdrawing the sword from the leather scabbard in humid and damp conditions in S. America and Caribbean.


* here I would note that obviously not ALL the so called Berber sabres had this notable effect on the blade tip. It was the notable number of them with it that I refer to.


It is clearly a matter of perception that I noticed years ago, and have never found a good reason for these distortions of these 'Berber' blades (actually Cuban in many cases). While these have been considered to have been used in tropical climes as machetes, I could not fathom a reason for this curious design pragmatically......and resigned to thinking of an aesthetic one perhaps recalling these kampilan.


I hope this explanation brings some clarity to my observation, and I was hoping that those well versed in these weapons might offer thoughts toward my idea.