#1603 Sultan Barong

Spunjer · 15th January 2019, 10:50 PM

what i find unique in your piece, Bill, is the flamboyant carving on the handle.
i also find it unusual that handle like yours tend to be made out of wood, but yours is ivory, a unique quality. on the other hand the flat top ones tend to be made out of ivory, rarely wood or carabao horn. i don't think this is random.

regarding alloyed with silver. did you remember the piece i picked up from eBay? that was tarnished so bad it was black, but as far as what you have there, and the one i posted (far right on the picture i posted), i don't believe it's heavily alloyed. much like yours, i haven't cleaned mine for a couple of years and yet it maintained it's luster. in the meantime, i can see the silver part was losing its shine

Oliver Pinchot · 16th January 2019, 05:14 AM

As far as I am aware, Qur'an mentions gold only in Chapter 35, the Sura Fatir, Line 33, which refers strictly to the Faithful in Paradise:

[For them are] gardens of perpetual residence which they will enter. They will be adorned therein with bracelets of gold and pearls, and their garments therein will be silk.

Gold is only specifically forbidden in the noted Hadith which recounts that the Prophet Muhammad, holding gold in one hand and silk in the other, stated that these things are forbidden to men but permitted to women in his community.

This suggests one of two possibilities: that the Moros may have been adhering to Qur'anic scripture, but not Hadith - or- that they observed Hadith but did not consider gold parts of things, including weapons, quite the same as objects made entirely of gold. This would allow many uses for gold in terms of weapons: hilt parts, inscriptions, etc., while still following Islamic law, as they perceived it. This argument is also borne out by the great use of gilding on silver, copper and brass throughout the Dar al Islam, while solid gold is exceptionally uncommon.
It is highly unlikely any Moro, sultan or otherwise, would have "felt he was beyond the Sharia Law."

ariel · 16th January 2019, 06:15 AM

Bill,
Most good jewelers these days have machines allowing to assess the composition of the alloy without any destruction : capacitive decay, X-ray fluorescence etc.
I went several times to our local jeweler and they did it as a courtesy. Takes 5 seconds and is very accurate. As a matter of fact, they were thrilled to see antique weapons and asked me to bring them more stabbers and slashers:-)

I am sure your neighbor jeweler has one of those already.

Battara · 16th January 2019, 11:40 PM

Bill you posted this barong years ago. Have you had the blade etched and polished since then?

Bill M · 17th January 2019, 02:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

Bill you posted this barong years ago. Have you had the blade etched and polished since then?

Just a recent cleaning. Probably should etch the blade. Do you still use ferric chloride or is there a new solution?

ariel · 17th January 2019, 07:25 AM

I like Nital, 1-2%

No rusty residual.

Sajen · 17th January 2019, 09:19 AM

Hi Bill,

Very, very nice shandigan barong!

I use vinegar with very good results but the blade would need a better polish.

Regards,
Detlef

16th January 2019, 05:14 AM	#2
Oliver Pinchot Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 462	As far as I am aware, Qur'an mentions gold only in Chapter 35, the Sura Fatir, Line 33, which refers strictly to the Faithful in Paradise: [For them are] gardens of perpetual residence which they will enter. They will be adorned therein with bracelets of gold and pearls, and their garments therein will be silk. Gold is only specifically forbidden in the noted Hadith which recounts that the Prophet Muhammad, holding gold in one hand and silk in the other, stated that these things are forbidden to men but permitted to women in his community. This suggests one of two possibilities: that the Moros may have been adhering to Qur'anic scripture, but not Hadith - or- that they observed Hadith but did not consider gold parts of things, including weapons, quite the same as objects made entirely of gold. This would allow many uses for gold in terms of weapons: hilt parts, inscriptions, etc., while still following Islamic law, as they perceived it. This argument is also borne out by the great use of gilding on silver, copper and brass throughout the Dar al Islam, while solid gold is exceptionally uncommon. It is highly unlikely any Moro, sultan or otherwise, would have "felt he was beyond the Sharia Law." Last edited by Oliver Pinchot; 16th January 2019 at 05:41 PM.

15th January 2019, 10:50 PM	#1
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	what i find unique in your piece, Bill, is the flamboyant carving on the handle. i also find it unusual that handle like yours tend to be made out of wood, but yours is ivory, a unique quality. on the other hand the flat top ones tend to be made out of ivory, rarely wood or carabao horn. i don't think this is random. regarding alloyed with silver. did you remember the piece i picked up from eBay? that was tarnished so bad it was black, but as far as what you have there, and the one i posted (far right on the picture i posted), i don't believe it's heavily alloyed. much like yours, i haven't cleaned mine for a couple of years and yet it maintained it's luster. in the meantime, i can see the silver part was losing its shine

16th January 2019, 06:15 AM	#3
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Bill, Most good jewelers these days have machines allowing to assess the composition of the alloy without any destruction : capacitive decay, X-ray fluorescence etc. I went several times to our local jeweler and they did it as a courtesy. Takes 5 seconds and is very accurate. As a matter of fact, they were thrilled to see antique weapons and asked me to bring them more stabbers and slashers:-) I am sure your neighbor jeweler has one of those already.

16th January 2019, 11:40 PM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	Bill you posted this barong years ago. Have you had the blade etched and polished since then?

17th January 2019, 07:25 AM	#6
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I like Nital, 1-2% No rusty residual.

17th January 2019, 09:19 AM	#7
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,165	Hi Bill, Very, very nice shandigan barong! I use vinegar with very good results but the blade would need a better polish. Regards, Detlef