Gaucho knife by Sheffield

Chris Evans · 15th January 2019, 01:56 AM

Hi Alex,

Thanks for the photo.

You have a very interesting and somewhat unusual high quality knife pertaining to the Pampean regions of South America.

It is in all probability an old one, with an English trade blade mounted by a local silversmith, though it cannot be ruled out that it was made to order elsewhere, as many in use in that part of the world were.

The original owner of this knife would have been a man of some wealth and status as they were the only ones who could afford such a fine piece.

By modern Argentinean classification, it is a "facon" and not being a working knife, the ownership of these in the course of the 19th century was highly discouraged, effectively banned, for all except the military, ranch owners and their overseers.

I looked through two lavishly illustrated reference books, one being Domenech's Dagas De Plata, and could not find one quite like it, the unusual part being the elaborate handguard/quillons; Local silversmiths favouring a guard fashioned from a flat piece of metal.

Could you perhaps tell us where you obtained it from?

If you like a more positive identification, I suggest that you write to Mr Abel Domenech in Argentina, who can be contacted at dom_reloader@yahoo.com

Abel has a fluent command of English and has helped forum members in the past. His website is http://www.domenech.com.ar/index.htm

Cheers
Chris

alex8765 · 15th January 2019, 06:38 PM

Hi Chris,
This is very helpful information, thank you very much!
I purchased this knife at the online auction with no information about it. I will try to contact Mr Abel Domenech as you recommended.
Regards
Alex

Chris Evans · 16th January 2019, 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alex8765

Hi Chris,
This is very helpful information, thank you very much!
I purchased this knife at the online auction with no information about it. I will try to contact Mr Abel Domenech as you recommended.
Regards
Alex

Creole knives (cuchillo Criollo) with old trade blades are highly valued in Sth America, and you backed a winner with this knife - I am envious!

Cheers
Chris

alex8765 · 16th January 2019, 01:34 PM

Thank you gentlemen

kronckew · 16th January 2019, 05:41 PM

Good catch! An excellent facon. Wish I'd seen it...

The facon I gather were the longer fighting knives/short swords, often made from bayonets, more for status than actual use in combat, while the ones the Gauchos used were more of a utility knife which occasionally got misdirected into fighting, The blade generally more offset and usually did not have a cross guard. As in all things, there may be exceptions...

Fernando K · 16th January 2019, 11:00 PM

Hello

The facon is usually a long weapon, attack or defense. That's why it has guard, which can be in U, S or a simple cruise. It has a sharp edge, outside and eventually, a sharp edge on its back. It differs from the dagger, because it has two edges. The spike is centered. Instead, the knife has a triangular shape. shorter, and the spike offset, towards the side of the spine. It has no guard. Of course there are exceptions, but they only confirm the rule

The presented copy meets the two characteristics

Affectionately

Chris Evans · 17th January 2019, 01:26 AM

Hi Folks,

As Fernando says, though I’ll add the following:

The etymology of the word “facon” derives from the Portuguese and old Castillian word “faca”, meaning knife. So “facon” means large knife, any large knife and this is how the term is still used in popular parlance.

However, modern writers on the subject and curators have narrowed the scope of the term to knives that meet the description given by Fernando, so as to be able to establish various other typologies based on their descriptive attributes.

In the course of the 19th century the term “gaucho” gradually changed from an appellation describing mounted vagabonds to include any agricultural worker and these folks were only allowed knives that were fit for hacienda/ranch work and thus facons were effectively outlawed; And in this context a “facon” was any large knife ill suited for work and conducive to violence.

For those interested, there is a rather good article on this subject in Spanish in Wikipedia, much better than the one in English, and which is worth translating: https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fac%C3%B3n

Cheers
Chris

Norman McCormick · 15th January 2019, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Evans

Abel has a fluent command of English and has helped forum members in the past.

Cheers
Chris

I can personally vouch for Mr Domenech's willingness and kindness in sharing his vast knowledge of this subject.
Regards,
Norman.

mross · 15th January 2019, 09:16 PM

Wow, that is gorgeous. More like a piece of jewelry than an art knife.

Fernando K · 15th January 2019, 09:32 PM

Hello

The letters T P V indicate the name of the silversmith who added the sheet.

On the other hand, I think a sheet that has been re-used, because the brand is off center.

Affectionately

15th January 2019, 01:56 AM	#1
Chris Evans Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 685	Hi Alex, Thanks for the photo. You have a very interesting and somewhat unusual high quality knife pertaining to the Pampean regions of South America. It is in all probability an old one, with an English trade blade mounted by a local silversmith, though it cannot be ruled out that it was made to order elsewhere, as many in use in that part of the world were. The original owner of this knife would have been a man of some wealth and status as they were the only ones who could afford such a fine piece. By modern Argentinean classification, it is a "facon" and not being a working knife, the ownership of these in the course of the 19th century was highly discouraged, effectively banned, for all except the military, ranch owners and their overseers. I looked through two lavishly illustrated reference books, one being Domenech's Dagas De Plata, and could not find one quite like it, the unusual part being the elaborate handguard/quillons; Local silversmiths favouring a guard fashioned from a flat piece of metal. Could you perhaps tell us where you obtained it from? If you like a more positive identification, I suggest that you write to Mr Abel Domenech in Argentina, who can be contacted at dom_reloader@yahoo.com Abel has a fluent command of English and has helped forum members in the past. His website is http://www.domenech.com.ar/index.htm Cheers Chris

15th January 2019, 06:38 PM	#2
alex8765 Member Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: NYC Posts: 63	Hi Chris, This is very helpful information, thank you very much! I purchased this knife at the online auction with no information about it. I will try to contact Mr Abel Domenech as you recommended. Regards Alex

16th January 2019, 01:34 PM	#4
alex8765 Member Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: NYC Posts: 63	Thank you gentlemen

16th January 2019, 05:41 PM	#5
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,224	Good catch! An excellent facon. Wish I'd seen it... The facon I gather were the longer fighting knives/short swords, often made from bayonets, more for status than actual use in combat, while the ones the Gauchos used were more of a utility knife which occasionally got misdirected into fighting, The blade generally more offset and usually did not have a cross guard. As in all things, there may be exceptions...

16th January 2019, 11:00 PM	#6
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 671	Hello The facon is usually a long weapon, attack or defense. That's why it has guard, which can be in U, S or a simple cruise. It has a sharp edge, outside and eventually, a sharp edge on its back. It differs from the dagger, because it has two edges. The spike is centered. Instead, the knife has a triangular shape. shorter, and the spike offset, towards the side of the spine. It has no guard. Of course there are exceptions, but they only confirm the rule The presented copy meets the two characteristics Affectionately

17th January 2019, 01:26 AM	#7
Chris Evans Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 685	Hi Folks, As Fernando says, though I’ll add the following: The etymology of the word “facon” derives from the Portuguese and old Castillian word “faca”, meaning knife. So “facon” means large knife, any large knife and this is how the term is still used in popular parlance. However, modern writers on the subject and curators have narrowed the scope of the term to knives that meet the description given by Fernando, so as to be able to establish various other typologies based on their descriptive attributes. In the course of the 19th century the term “gaucho” gradually changed from an appellation describing mounted vagabonds to include any agricultural worker and these folks were only allowed knives that were fit for hacienda/ranch work and thus facons were effectively outlawed; And in this context a “facon” was any large knife ill suited for work and conducive to violence. For those interested, there is a rather good article on this subject in Spanish in Wikipedia, much better than the one in English, and which is worth translating: https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fac%C3%B3n Cheers Chris

15th January 2019, 09:16 PM	#9
mross Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 478	Wow, that is gorgeous. More like a piece of jewelry than an art knife.

15th January 2019, 09:32 PM	#10
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 671	Hello The letters T P V indicate the name of the silversmith who added the sheet. On the other hand, I think a sheet that has been re-used, because the brand is off center. Affectionately