Elephant swords

fernando · 9th December 2018, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

I think it is fantastic what we have found out about the elephant armouring, a lot due to Fernando - thank you very much...

My pleasure, Jens; i have also learnt a lot myself

.

Jens Nordlunde · 9th December 2018, 09:35 PM

Although I do love the miniatures Fernando shows, you should be aware of, that they are not always correct - the miniatures. As there can always be the artistical elemnt, but the later miniatures are mostly correct - I think.

fernando · 9th December 2018, 09:48 PM

It is like some times artists have a combined manner to do things wrong in a standard way. You take the Simpsons cartoons, for one; they are designed with four fingers in their hands but the artists know they should have five.

ariel · 9th December 2018, 10:40 PM

Re: image of trunk sword in Moser 1912.
I have 1925 and 1955 editions: nothing there.

Anybody here has 1912 edition ?

I also went through a Russian book by K.S. Nosov “ Traditional weapons of India” EKSNO, Moscow 2011.

Apparently, the author visited several museums in India and the Leeds Armoury. He photographed mainly the entire glass-covered panels of various weapons and some individual examples. Virtually all photos are very small, and details are not discernible. A lot of pictures are republished from other sources ( quite a lot from Elgood) without attribution.
There is one drawing of a trunk sword of unknown provenance, dimensions and details. It looks just like one in Post # 14.
The text is intriguing:
( Translation is mine)

“Afanasij Nikitin reported that Indians attached big and heavy swords to trunks and tusks of elephants. Such practice is confirmed by other sources. For example, even at the beginning of the VI century one Sun Yun, a Chinese traveler, reported the existence of swords attached to the trunks of war elephants (Kistler, “War elephants”, Westport- London, 2006). In addition, other implements tied to the trunks were maces, scythes and even chains. Chains were as terrible as swords. Imagine an elephant swinging a trunk to which two or three segments of chain weighing about 100 kg each! The tusk swords were not less dangerous. There are known instances when an elephant was throwing its victim high in the air and then cut it in half with sword blades. Additionally, tusk swords were often covered with poison to frighten enemy combatants who did not dare to approach the elephant.
....Chains were also tied to elephant’s legs and those allowed “pegging” the animal to the ground if it started panicking” ( the latter refers to the image shown in Post #41)

Well, we have discussed fantastic stories coming from ancient authors. Regretfully, the modern ones are not better....

fernando · 10th December 2018, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Re: image of trunk sword in Moser 1912.
I have 1925 and 1955 editions: nothing there.
Anybody here has 1912 edition ?...

I guess Jens has a copy !

9th December 2018, 09:35 PM	#2
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Although I do love the miniatures Fernando shows, you should be aware of, that they are not always correct - the miniatures. As there can always be the artistical elemnt, but the later miniatures are mostly correct - I think.

9th December 2018, 09:48 PM	#3
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	It is like some times artists have a combined manner to do things wrong in a standard way. You take the Simpsons cartoons, for one; they are designed with four fingers in their hands but the artists know they should have five.

9th December 2018, 10:40 PM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Re: image of trunk sword in Moser 1912. I have 1925 and 1955 editions: nothing there. Anybody here has 1912 edition ? I also went through a Russian book by K.S. Nosov “ Traditional weapons of India” EKSNO, Moscow 2011. Apparently, the author visited several museums in India and the Leeds Armoury. He photographed mainly the entire glass-covered panels of various weapons and some individual examples. Virtually all photos are very small, and details are not discernible. A lot of pictures are republished from other sources ( quite a lot from Elgood) without attribution. There is one drawing of a trunk sword of unknown provenance, dimensions and details. It looks just like one in Post # 14. The text is intriguing: ( Translation is mine) “Afanasij Nikitin reported that Indians attached big and heavy swords to trunks and tusks of elephants. Such practice is confirmed by other sources. For example, even at the beginning of the VI century one Sun Yun, a Chinese traveler, reported the existence of swords attached to the trunks of war elephants (Kistler, “War elephants”, Westport- London, 2006). In addition, other implements tied to the trunks were maces, scythes and even chains. Chains were as terrible as swords. Imagine an elephant swinging a trunk to which two or three segments of chain weighing about 100 kg each! The tusk swords were not less dangerous. There are known instances when an elephant was throwing its victim high in the air and then cut it in half with sword blades. Additionally, tusk swords were often covered with poison to frighten enemy combatants who did not dare to approach the elephant. ....Chains were also tied to elephant’s legs and those allowed “pegging” the animal to the ground if it started panicking” ( the latter refers to the image shown in Post #41) Well, we have discussed fantastic stories coming from ancient authors. Regretfully, the modern ones are not better....