Gorgeous Shamshir with... bad feeling

M.carter · 11th April 2006, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALEX

Ariel, your bad feelings are well justified. Both items have new silver work (on obviously old wootz blades). And by new I mean "YESTERDAY". This type of work is typical of what I have seen when I was in Damascus. My only comment is that I do NOT think the silver work on both shamshir and dagger scabbards deserves a high praise. I have seen much!!! way much better, and for the same $. 99.9% are made NOW in Damascus for Qatar and Saudi markets, so you'll not see it on E-Bay

Well Ive seen much better than what you have seen

In Saudi Arabia. Much more traditional ways of production, and much, much more beautiful silver/gold work. Although, when it comes to koftgari, there is nowhere in the world today that performs that art, better than the artisans in Damascus, Souq Medhat Pasha...

ariel · 11th April 2006, 11:53 PM

No matter how we look at it, no matter how beatiful the techniques are, how traditional are the techniques, the final verdict is the same: fake.
Goes staright to the core of our recent discussion:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2194

M.carter · 12th April 2006, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

No matter how we look at it, no matter how beatiful the techniques are, how traditional are the techniques, the final verdict is the same: fake.
Goes staright to the core of our recent discussion:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2194

Can you please explain why you would term this sword a fake??

The blade is fully authentic, and probably the hilt. Only the scabbard is possibly new. Last week we saw a Kilij with a newly made indian scabbard, would you call that one a "fake"??

erlikhan · 12th April 2006, 08:31 PM

According to me, if the seller didnt warn that the scabbard is a new production and offered it with the description "original", it can be defined as a "fake",I agree.Doesnt need to be completely new. As a result,i am sure everybody here agree it would not sell so high if its scabbard was described as "new".
regards

ALEX · 13th April 2006, 10:29 AM

I second Ariel's "fake" verdict. Anything, which is newly made, and claimed as "original" is a definition of fake. This scabbard IS a current recreation. Moreover, the seller grossly misrepresented many of his sold items in the past (no offense anyone - I just state the facts). 'Nuff said...

Battara · 14th April 2006, 07:26 PM

Alex, I see your point. If something is old with new fittings and the seller mentions the fittings are newer, then it is not a fake. I'm not sure I go as far as calling it a "fake" but I do see your point and I do believe there is an ethical obligation for the seller to mention what is new and what is original (assuming the seller is aware).

11th April 2006, 11:53 PM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	No matter how we look at it, no matter how beatiful the techniques are, how traditional are the techniques, the final verdict is the same: fake. Goes staright to the core of our recent discussion: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2194

12th April 2006, 08:31 PM	#4
erlikhan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Istanbul Posts: 452	According to me, if the seller didnt warn that the scabbard is a new production and offered it with the description "original", it can be defined as a "fake",I agree.Doesnt need to be completely new. As a result,i am sure everybody here agree it would not sell so high if its scabbard was described as "new". regards

13th April 2006, 10:29 AM	#5
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	I second Ariel's "fake" verdict. Anything, which is newly made, and claimed as "original" is a definition of fake. This scabbard IS a current recreation. Moreover, the seller grossly misrepresented many of his sold items in the past (no offense anyone - I just state the facts). 'Nuff said...

14th April 2006, 07:26 PM	#6
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	Alex, I see your point. If something is old with new fittings and the seller mentions the fittings are newer, then it is not a fake. I'm not sure I go as far as calling it a "fake" but I do see your point and I do believe there is an ethical obligation for the seller to mention what is new and what is original (assuming the seller is aware).