Whydah Galley

Rick · 23rd November 2018, 09:44 PM

That makes 3 of us who are wondering about that object. The museum is about 10 miles away from where I live. Maybe when they have a senior discount day I'll go down and ask about it.
Being a museum about a pirate ship the regular admission cost is piracy too!

fernando · 23rd November 2018, 10:15 PM

Miser dude

.

Rick · 23rd November 2018, 11:16 PM

I'm always willing to accept funding for a research project.... 'Nando.

M ELEY · 24th November 2018, 07:00 AM

Thanks again, Rick, for posting this. The 'man to the right' is Barry Clifford himself, discoverer of the Whydah, archaeologist, treasure hunter, author, museum founder and scalawag! He is a controversial man, with some run-ins with both state officials, other archaeologists and former employees, but I always liked the guy. Kind of a modern day pirate. BTW, after seeing this thread, I decided to purchase a couple of old bronze manilla as a tip of the hat to the African slaves who gained their freedom through piracy!

Pukka Bundook · 24th November 2018, 02:14 PM

Gents,

Interesting thread, but at the risk of appearing as thick as I am, How are these bracelets associated with the slave trade?
By this I mean they don't look strong enogh to have been shackles....

Please forgive my ignorance!

PS,
When I first saw these , I thought how like Bronze age torques they were !

fernando · 24th November 2018, 03:06 PM

Richard, i believe that, these manilhas are not directly associated with the slavery phenomenon but, only circumstancially. Indeed their basic purpose was that of exchanging currency units, as also other implements of similar kind, where their metal (bronze) contents represent their intrinsic value, in cultures where money was (is) not based in coins and notes, valued by Central bank treasures (so they say

).
I have once bought a rather nice example, which i offered to my daughter. Although they may be considered, judging by their shape, as actual bracelets, the one of mine, for one, although rather sturdy, was to narrow to fit my young daughters wrist, meaning that their purpose was (only) directed to market currency, that not for adornment.
Other members will most probably contest my assessment

.

fernando · 24th November 2018, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

I'm always willing to accept funding for a research project.... 'Nando.

Maybe a partnership; based on a larger share to the funds investor

Jim McDougall · 25th November 2018, 12:11 AM

It seems the manilla was actually a primary means of exchange in the slave trade, so the presence of these in the proximity of a slave ship wreck such as the Whydah is pretty compelling suggestion that these were probably directly connected in that trade.
Apparently the 16th century price for a slave was 8 to 10 manillas so that is a strong indicator.
While these may not have been intended as ornament, they may have been worn on the wrists as a means of holding them. In many cultures the items of jewelry or other items such as this while worn on the person, are used as currency.

Mark, I agree totally with your take on Barry Clifford. While he may not make points as man of the hour in certain groups, his efforts have given us so much in the understanding and appreciation of the times of piracy. His persona as a bit of a scalawag seems as you say, quite in kind with the figures we study.

Rick · 25th November 2018, 02:14 AM

Beware, beware the Bight of the Benin, for few come out though many go in.

Here's a little insight on those 'Manilas' and the slave trade.
https://www.ancient-origins.net/arti...t-brass-008565

Jim McDougall · 25th November 2018, 01:40 PM

I always thought that term 'bight' was strange, it really is just a word for a shallow bay in a kind of curve in a coastline.
The words describing the 'Bight of Benin' are part of a rhyme which seems to have many variations but the same foreboding implications.

The fact of the Portuguese presence in these regions and their key role in the slavery situation are well established and the link in the previous post is quite descritive of the influences made.

In the same regions on what was known as 'the Slave Coast' was the Kingdom of Dahomey where Sir Richard Burton in 1863 observed some of the gruesome 'ceremonies' of King Gelele.

It would seem the Portuguese interest in procuring natives was in a sense to preclude their use in such sacrificial horror, though the grim travesty of slavery was in actuality far from 'humanitarian'. Whatever the case, this commerce carried on with other European participants, and the Whydah ship was actually named for the slave port of Whidah on this coast.
Blackbeard's vessel, the Queen Annes Revenge was formerly a French slave vessel as well. Another shipwreck well known was the slave vessel 'Henrietta Marie'.

25th November 2018, 01:40 PM	#10
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	I always thought that term 'bight' was strange, it really is just a word for a shallow bay in a kind of curve in a coastline. The words describing the 'Bight of Benin' are part of a rhyme which seems to have many variations but the same foreboding implications. The fact of the Portuguese presence in these regions and their key role in the slavery situation are well established and the link in the previous post is quite descritive of the influences made. In the same regions on what was known as 'the Slave Coast' was the Kingdom of Dahomey where Sir Richard Burton in 1863 observed some of the gruesome 'ceremonies' of King Gelele. It would seem the Portuguese interest in procuring natives was in a sense to preclude their use in such sacrificial horror, though the grim travesty of slavery was in actuality far from 'humanitarian'. Whatever the case, this commerce carried on with other European participants, and the Whydah ship was actually named for the slave port of Whidah on this coast. Blackbeard's vessel, the Queen Annes Revenge was formerly a French slave vessel as well. Another shipwreck well known was the slave vessel 'Henrietta Marie'. Attached Images

23rd November 2018, 09:44 PM	#1
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	That makes 3 of us who are wondering about that object. The museum is about 10 miles away from where I live. Maybe when they have a senior discount day I'll go down and ask about it. Being a museum about a pirate ship the regular admission cost is piracy too!

23rd November 2018, 10:15 PM	#2
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Miser dude .

23rd November 2018, 11:16 PM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	I'm always willing to accept funding for a research project.... 'Nando.

24th November 2018, 07:00 AM	#4
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,156	Thanks again, Rick, for posting this. The 'man to the right' is Barry Clifford himself, discoverer of the Whydah, archaeologist, treasure hunter, author, museum founder and scalawag! He is a controversial man, with some run-ins with both state officials, other archaeologists and former employees, but I always liked the guy. Kind of a modern day pirate. BTW, after seeing this thread, I decided to purchase a couple of old bronze manilla as a tip of the hat to the African slaves who gained their freedom through piracy!

24th November 2018, 02:14 PM	#5
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Gents, Interesting thread, but at the risk of appearing as thick as I am, How are these bracelets associated with the slave trade? By this I mean they don't look strong enogh to have been shackles.... Please forgive my ignorance! PS, When I first saw these , I thought how like Bronze age torques they were !

24th November 2018, 03:06 PM	#6
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Richard, i believe that, these manilhas are not directly associated with the slavery phenomenon but, only circumstancially. Indeed their basic purpose was that of exchanging currency units, as also other implements of similar kind, where their metal (bronze) contents represent their intrinsic value, in cultures where money was (is) not based in coins and notes, valued by Central bank treasures (so they say ). I have once bought a rather nice example, which i offered to my daughter. Although they may be considered, judging by their shape, as actual bracelets, the one of mine, for one, although rather sturdy, was to narrow to fit my young daughters wrist, meaning that their purpose was (only) directed to market currency, that not for adornment. Other members will most probably contest my assessment .

25th November 2018, 12:11 AM	#8
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	It seems the manilla was actually a primary means of exchange in the slave trade, so the presence of these in the proximity of a slave ship wreck such as the Whydah is pretty compelling suggestion that these were probably directly connected in that trade. Apparently the 16th century price for a slave was 8 to 10 manillas so that is a strong indicator. While these may not have been intended as ornament, they may have been worn on the wrists as a means of holding them. In many cultures the items of jewelry or other items such as this while worn on the person, are used as currency. Mark, I agree totally with your take on Barry Clifford. While he may not make points as man of the hour in certain groups, his efforts have given us so much in the understanding and appreciation of the times of piracy. His persona as a bit of a scalawag seems as you say, quite in kind with the figures we study.

25th November 2018, 02:14 AM	#9
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	Beware, beware the Bight of the Benin, for few come out though many go in. Here's a little insight on those 'Manilas' and the slave trade. https://www.ancient-origins.net/arti...t-brass-008565