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B.I · 9th April 2006, 12:03 PM

hi yannis,
i too was at the auction (probably sitting near you :-) and know the piece you are talking about. but, what you must realise that the internet is just a small very part of arms collecting/dealing.
when i viewed the sale there was an islamic dealer viewing the same pieces. a few days later, at auction, he sat on the other side of a friend of mine who knew him. just before that dagger came up, he whispered across that he was going to bid and i could see it marked in his catalogue. i told him it was a fake and he was surprised. he urgently asked if i was sure and i said i was, which left enough doubt for him to leave his paddle down. he bought a few pieces in that sale and i know that he doesnt deal in arms. his main thing is islamic art and his clientel is completely unrelated to the collectors on this forum. in fact, the islamic art world is almost completely unrelated to the islamic arms world, in that they have thier own dealers, their own buyers and their own price structure (2-3 times that of arms).
i have no doubt that he would have bought it, and i also have no doubt that he could have sold it for a profit. he examined the piece closely, and still couldnt see that it was obviously wrong.
when i went into the auction house, i saw a japanese dealer of strong standing and knowledge that knows my intrest, and he asked if i had seen that fabulous dagger. he hadnt examined it of course, but was fully aware of the one it was modelled on that has been published.
so, i feel there was no danger of anyone on this forum buying it. the price as too high (even in estimate) for anyone who knows what they are doing to bid blind. also, the telephone bid and absentee bids were not necessarily done by those that hadnt viewed the sale. stuttgart fair was on at the same time and many people viewed the sale, the left bids and went abroad.
all said, i too was shocked at its price. also, there was a shamshir in the sale with modern hilt and mounts. the auction house omitted dating both pieces, so they were well covered.
i think the advice should be to never buy without examining first, but if everyone adhered to that, they ebay would be out of business.
maybe the advice should be to know the market well before you spend 1000s. that particular piece has been circulating in small numbers over the last few years.
as you say, it looked great in the photos and the description was 'glossed' over.

9th April 2006, 12:03 PM	#2
B.I Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 485	hi yannis, i too was at the auction (probably sitting near you :-) and know the piece you are talking about. but, what you must realise that the internet is just a small very part of arms collecting/dealing. when i viewed the sale there was an islamic dealer viewing the same pieces. a few days later, at auction, he sat on the other side of a friend of mine who knew him. just before that dagger came up, he whispered across that he was going to bid and i could see it marked in his catalogue. i told him it was a fake and he was surprised. he urgently asked if i was sure and i said i was, which left enough doubt for him to leave his paddle down. he bought a few pieces in that sale and i know that he doesnt deal in arms. his main thing is islamic art and his clientel is completely unrelated to the collectors on this forum. in fact, the islamic art world is almost completely unrelated to the islamic arms world, in that they have thier own dealers, their own buyers and their own price structure (2-3 times that of arms). i have no doubt that he would have bought it, and i also have no doubt that he could have sold it for a profit. he examined the piece closely, and still couldnt see that it was obviously wrong. when i went into the auction house, i saw a japanese dealer of strong standing and knowledge that knows my intrest, and he asked if i had seen that fabulous dagger. he hadnt examined it of course, but was fully aware of the one it was modelled on that has been published. so, i feel there was no danger of anyone on this forum buying it. the price as too high (even in estimate) for anyone who knows what they are doing to bid blind. also, the telephone bid and absentee bids were not necessarily done by those that hadnt viewed the sale. stuttgart fair was on at the same time and many people viewed the sale, the left bids and went abroad. all said, i too was shocked at its price. also, there was a shamshir in the sale with modern hilt and mounts. the auction house omitted dating both pieces, so they were well covered. i think the advice should be to never buy without examining first, but if everyone adhered to that, they ebay would be out of business. maybe the advice should be to know the market well before you spend 1000s. that particular piece has been circulating in small numbers over the last few years. as you say, it looked great in the photos and the description was 'glossed' over.