photos from an temporary exhibition hosted in Arts&Crafts Museum of HangZhou,China

[Philip]

Originally Posted by sakimori

Another one,with significant features similar to swords in Japan.
I guess there really isn't much to say about this one,except you can fell the influence from other culture in first look.I think that is the exact reason make the sword valued.

The only things remotely Japanese-looking about this saber are the disc-shaped guard, and the blade with the facets and ridges on the sides. The blade form is encountered in Korea and Vietnam as well. Blades with these features were made in all these countries (the ridges and facets are also found on Eurasian saber blades from the Middle Ages and on some Mamluk and early Ottoman blades, but that is another story -- I mention it here only to show that these features, in and of themselves, are not a Japanese monopoly).

However, the hilt and scabbard are typically Chinese, specifically the style known as fangshi (angular pattern, from the cross-section of the grip and sheath), which was adopted by the Manchus for most of their regulation-pattern military sabers from the mid-17th cent onwards for about a century or more.

[sakimori]

Originally Posted by Philip

The only things remotely Japanese-looking about this saber are the disc-shaped guard, and the blade with the facets and ridges on the sides. The blade form is encountered in Korea and Vietnam as well. Blades with these features were made in all these countries (the ridges and facets are also found on Eurasian saber blades from the Middle Ages and on some Mamluk and early Ottoman blades, but that is another story -- I mention it here only to show that these features, in and of themselves, are not a Japanese monopoly).

However, the hilt and scabbard are typically Chinese, specifically the style known as fangshi (angular pattern, from the cross-section of the grip and sheath), which was adopted by the Manchus for most of their regulation-pattern military sabers from the mid-17th cent onwards for about a century or more.

Philip,
I hope we can agree that blade is a important part of the blade.Compare to other Chinese swords in the similar period,you will get the idea:the sword is indeed is unique in it's own way.
Besides,Ming's Empire of China had imported a massive number of Japanese swords in it's trade with Japan,and Japanese swords is really popular back then.There was poet concentrate about swords from Japan,local craftwork try to copy the form of Japanese swords...
So in this specifically sample,Japanese influence,I belive.

[sakimori]

Another less-fancy one.This type of guard did not exist till Qing's Dynasty--inspiration from cutlass and sabers of Europe.
Long sword with European guard,like the sample,is not very common--in China,these guard appears in the hilt of long knives&daggers more often:Refers to "butterfly knives" or"paired knives"if two knives were crafted to hold in one sheath."Short knives" or else,if they were not.I'm sure you are familiar with this part.

[Philip]

Originally Posted by sakimori

Another less-fancy one.This type of guard did not exist till Qing's Dynasty--inspiration from cutlass and sabers of Europe.
Long sword with European guard,like the sample,is not very common--in China,these guard appears in the hilt of long knives&daggers more often:Refers to "butterfly knives" or"paired knives"if two knives were crafted to hold in one sheath."Short knives" or else,if they were not.I'm sure you are familiar with this part.

Yes, the knucklebow on the guard of this saber is clearly a Western influence, probably from the cutlasses carried by sailors on foreign ships. You find this hybridization also on some important weapons from Southeast Asia. The guom carried by Vietnamese military mandarins is an example. Even more marked is the guard on the parang nabur used in North Borneo; the form is almost exactly like the knuckeguards on north European military and naval swords from the 18th cent. until the First World War. Many examples of both have been posted on various threads of this Forum so I won't bother putting any here.

[Philip]

Agreed, the blade is the most important aspect of ANY sword.
And I'm quite aware of the so-called Kango commerce and the importation of thousands of Japanese blades to China (and other trade which resulted in as many such blades ending up in Thailand and Vietnam somewhat later.

The point I am trying to make is that some of the key design elements on the blade of that Chinese saber are not necessarily limited to the design of Japanese swords and are indeed found on the saber blades of other cultures with no real connection to Japan. For example, the facets and ridges (shinogi) on the sides of the blades are also seen on Mamluk and Ottoman sabers of the 15th-16th cent., these derived from the same features common on saber blades of the nomad peoples inhabiting a huge expanse of territory from Siberia to the plains of southeast Europe during the Middle Ages. The curvature of the blade is also reflected in many weapons from this same expanse of Eurasia.

China was in contact with these regions on its western and northern borders for centuries before Japanese blades were imported to Ming China. A comprehensive study of Chinese arms and martial culture during the archaic and medieval periods clearly show a closer connection between China and the empires to the west than to Japan. In terms of blade and hilt aesthetics on things like sabers and daggers, it remained the case even into the early-modern centuries, as with the Persian and Indian influences which became popular at the height of the Qing dynasty.

[sakimori]

Originally Posted by Philip

Agreed, the blade is the most important aspect of ANY sword.
And I'm quite aware of the so-called Kango commerce and the importation of thousands of Japanese blades to China (and other trade which resulted in as many such blades ending up in Thailand and Vietnam somewhat later.

The point I am trying to make is that some of the key design elements on the blade of that Chinese saber are not necessarily limited to the design of Japanese swords and are indeed found on the saber blades of other cultures with no real connection to Japan. For example, the facets and ridges (shinogi) on the sides of the blades are also seen on Mamluk and Ottoman sabers of the 15th-16th cent., these derived from the same features common on saber blades of the nomad peoples inhabiting a huge expanse of territory from Siberia to the plains of southeast Europe during the Middle Ages. The curvature of the blade is also reflected in many weapons from this same expanse of Eurasia.

China was in contact with these regions on its western and northern borders for centuries before Japanese blades were imported to Ming China. A comprehensive study of Chinese arms and martial culture during the archaic and medieval periods clearly show a closer connection between China and the empires to the west than to Japan. In terms of blade and hilt aesthetics on things like sabers and daggers, it remained the case even into the early-modern centuries, as with the Persian and Indian influences which became popular at the height of the Qing dynasty.

Philip, I think I basically agree to what you said, though I might use a different expression while it's about details. Yes, in my views China in it's long history is more often accepting ideas and designs from western rather than "exporting" them, especially when it is about military and art(as far as I can understand), even sabers with curved blades didn't became really popular before regime from Mongolia takes over. But I didn't mean to suggest that saber is special because I think it's a milestone of how swords in China evolved, but it is a very unique and very "Japanese-like" sample in it's own period.
Also,I'm afraid swords and daggers with Persian and Indian influences you talked about were only popular inside the royal house due to the personal interest of Qianlong Emperor himself and more often regarded as dress swords or daggers. So.. I probably won't say they are "popular" since it is most likely a fashion of noble men. But again, I'm likely seemed very nit-picking and dyslexic? to you all at the moment, since I don't really speak English as a language after all... Still I appreciate you willing to reply this thread.