Interesting Balkan Long Gun

rickystl · 25th August 2018, 09:06 PM

ONE MORE.......

kahnjar1 · 25th August 2018, 10:32 PM

A really lovely gun Rick. As you state, Tirri places this style as Rumelian which in todays language, is the region covered by northern Greece, Albania, Macedonia and Bulgaria. You did well!! I wonder if the "blued" effect is tarnish on the silver? Have you tried silver cleaner on a small area?
I have nothing to add to my comments except to say that I think you have a piece in exceptional order for age.
Stu

Kubur · 26th August 2018, 08:14 AM

Hi Rick,

Very nice gun.
I have seen some of them, but yours is perfect.
Don't remove the blue in fact it's black niello work, normaly seen on Caucasian guns...

Best,
Kubur

BANDOOK · 26th August 2018, 11:30 AM

Hi Rick
This is a interesting gun and I love the work on the butt,Great find and the first of this type I have seen
very unusual
BRAVO
cheers Rajesh

rickystl · 26th August 2018, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BANDOOK

Hi Rick
This is a interesting gun and I love the work on the butt,Great find and the first of this type I have seen
very unusual
BRAVO
cheers Rajesh

Hi Rajesh
Thanks for your comments. As mentioned above, Kubur says he has seen a couple. But this is the first one I've seen outside of Tirri's book. Even though the barrel has a heavier breech area, the gun is very light. Only about 6-lbs.
And it's very comfortable on the shoulder, even with the narrow butt end.
It's an interesting gun with a mix of different Balkan styles. Glad I was able to obtain it.

Rick

rickystl · 26th August 2018, 03:47 PM

I took the lock off the gun to study further. I'm convinced that this gun was originally built as percussion and later converted to flintlock back in the period.
Notice there is a plug in the barrel where the vent hole now resides. This is where a percussion drum or bolster originally resided. Also, the lock mortice shows a period alteration to accomodate the change to a different lock (flintlock). It's also why the vent hole in the barrel does not line up exactly in the center of the priming pan. But would still work OK.
Of course we often see this change from the latter percussion system back to the earlier flintlock on many Eastern type guns. Percussion caps being difficult to locate and expensive in these Eastern regions.
Surprisingly, the lock is in good working order as-is. I got lucky with this one LOL. It appears to be locally made. While not quite up to European snuff, it is made much better than the typical Balkan flintlock. The main and sear springs are strong, but not overly so.
So the gun just needs a bit of minor clean-up and displayed with the others in the collection. Nice for a change to get something that doesn't require restoration or other fixes. LOL

Rick

eftihis · 26th August 2018, 08:15 PM

Well, i was discussing about this type of gun with a turkish collector, and he said that these are known in Turkey as Armenian guns. This provemamce correxponds well with the "like caucasus niello" decoration.

rickystl · 26th August 2018, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

Hi Rick,

Very nice gun.
I have seen some of them, but yours is perfect.
Don't remove the blue in fact it's black niello work, normaly seen on Caucasian guns...

Best,
Kubur

Hi Kubur

YES!!! That's where I've seen this before. On Caucasian guns. A few years ago I was at the Baltimore Show and saw a ball-butt Caucasian pistol with barrel bands that had the same treatment. And another Caucasian rifle at an auction with similar treatment. It seems to be what we call a white metal. More tin content than silver. Which, would be more suitable for this type of blue/black treatment. NO !! I won't remove it. It's very attractive and historically correct.
OK. Black niello. Thanks. While studying this, there was something familiar in the back of my mind, but couldn't pull it out LOL. Thanks again.

Rick

rickystl · 26th August 2018, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

A really lovely gun Rick. As you state, Tirri places this style as Rumelian which in todays language, is the region covered by northern Greece, Albania, Macedonia and Bulgaria. You did well!! I wonder if the "blued" effect is tarnish on the silver? Have you tried silver cleaner on a small area?
I have nothing to add to my comments except to say that I think you have a piece in exceptional order for age.
Stu

Hi Stu

Thanks for your comments. Yes, I tried a dab of polishing paste and a tiny bit of silver cleaner on a corner of the butt cap surround. Didn't do anything except remove a bit of hidden dirt. So it's not tarnish, per say. But there is evidence that all the metal hardware originally had this treatment when first built. If you notice the barrel bands while covered with this blue/black treatment, the engraving shows through. Very neat effect.

Rick

25th August 2018, 09:06 PM	#1
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,632	ONE MORE....... Attached Images

26th August 2018, 03:47 PM	#6
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,632	I took the lock off the gun to study further. I'm convinced that this gun was originally built as percussion and later converted to flintlock back in the period. Notice there is a plug in the barrel where the vent hole now resides. This is where a percussion drum or bolster originally resided. Also, the lock mortice shows a period alteration to accomodate the change to a different lock (flintlock). It's also why the vent hole in the barrel does not line up exactly in the center of the priming pan. But would still work OK. Of course we often see this change from the latter percussion system back to the earlier flintlock on many Eastern type guns. Percussion caps being difficult to locate and expensive in these Eastern regions. Surprisingly, the lock is in good working order as-is. I got lucky with this one LOL. It appears to be locally made. While not quite up to European snuff, it is made much better than the typical Balkan flintlock. The main and sear springs are strong, but not overly so. So the gun just needs a bit of minor clean-up and displayed with the others in the collection. Nice for a change to get something that doesn't require restoration or other fixes. LOL Rick Attached Images

25th August 2018, 10:32 PM	#2
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,789	A really lovely gun Rick. As you state, Tirri places this style as Rumelian which in todays language, is the region covered by northern Greece, Albania, Macedonia and Bulgaria. You did well!! I wonder if the "blued" effect is tarnish on the silver? Have you tried silver cleaner on a small area? I have nothing to add to my comments except to say that I think you have a piece in exceptional order for age. Stu

26th August 2018, 08:14 AM	#3
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Hi Rick, Very nice gun. I have seen some of them, but yours is perfect. Don't remove the blue in fact it's black niello work, normaly seen on Caucasian guns... Best, Kubur

26th August 2018, 11:30 AM	#4
BANDOOK Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: AUCKLAND,NEW ZEALAND Posts: 627	Hi Rick This is a interesting gun and I love the work on the butt,Great find and the first of this type I have seen very unusual BRAVO cheers Rajesh

26th August 2018, 08:15 PM	#7
eftihis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chania Crete Greece Posts: 511	Well, i was discussing about this type of gun with a turkish collector, and he said that these are known in Turkey as Armenian guns. This provemamce correxponds well with the "like caucasus niello" decoration.