Balinese Keris with an original pamor.

[David]

Originally Posted by Jean

I agree that the shape of the blade is quite massive for a Javanese blade but why Lombok?
The back side of the ganja significantly sinks into the scabbard slot while the front side is flush, poor mranggi work. BTW I am not sure that the ganja is missing?
Regards

Jean, i stated that "if i had to guess i would say Lombok". Please note "had to". Hopefully i don't.
I am still thinking along the lines of Bali/Lombak. I lead towards Lombok because i have seen more gonjo iras blades that have been identified as Lombok than Bali and if you noted my comment in my very first response here i stated that i suspect this blade good be gonjo iras. I also think this particular dwi warna pamor is a bit unusual for Bali keris, but was under the impression that Lombak keris were more likely to have unusual pamors. I could, of course, be wrong on this.

[Jean]

Originally Posted by David

Jean, i stated that "if i had to guess i would say Lombok". Please note "had to". Hopefully i don't.
I am still thinking along the lines of Bali/Lombak. I lead towards Lombok because i have seen more gonjo iras blades that have been identified as Lombok than Bali and if you noted my comment in my very first response here i stated that i suspect this blade good be gonjo iras. I also think this particular dwi warna pamor is a bit unusual for Bali keris, but was under the impression that Lombak keris were more likely to have unusual pamors. I could, of course, be wrong on this.

Hello David,
You are right that this type of pamor seems more common in Lombok than in Bali.
I looked into the reference book from Djelenga and found 3 blades with Kul Buntet motif including 2 with Adeg pamor on page 145 but with a narrow luk shape and identified as "Keris Santana gaya Jaya"?
However I did not find any blade with a similar shape to the one shown by Athanase, but according to the EK this type of dapur is called Gumbeng in Java (not mentioned in the book Dhapur). Also the greneng is not typical of Bali/ Lombok?
Athanase, what is the length of the blade excluding the pesi? If it less than 35 cm it would not point towards Lombok.
Regards

[Athanase]

Thank you all for your information.

The blade is "short", 33cm. But the pamor seems to have shown that it was longer at the beginning and that it was shortened afterwards.


I can't differentiate the blades from Bali and Lombok?
Generally, what are the details to look for to make a difference?
The handle and the scabbard are from Bali? or also from Lombok?

[David]

Originally Posted by Athanase

Thank you all for your information.

The blade is "short", 33cm. But the pamor seems to have shown that it was longer at the beginning and that it was shortened afterwards.


I can't differentiate the blades from Bali and Lombok?
Generally, what are the details to look for to make a difference?
The handle and the scabbard are from Bali? or also from Lombok?

From about 1750 under the Dutch took control in 1895 Lombok was under Balinese rule. At times different parts of Lombok were ruled by various feuding Balinese kingdoms. During this time it is difficult to tell for sure the difference between many Bali and Lombok keris. It is also possible that some keris made in Lombok may well have been made by Balinese smiths who were sent there. But my understanding is that keris actual made in Lombok could, at times, be a bit more flamboyant than the usual Bali blade.
I believe i recall that certain style of "Bali" sheath was more common to Lombok, but perhaps someone can confirm that. As for your kidney shaped gayaman sarong i think these were to be found in both areas during this almost century and a half period so its hard to say where yours was made. The same can probably be said for the hilt.

[Jean]

Originally Posted by David

I believe i recall that certain style of "Bali" sheath was more common to Lombok, but perhaps someone can confirm that.

Yes, the kojongan or kekonjongan style of scabbard seems to have been more common in Lombok than in Bali (see pic, I bought this typical old piece in Lombok).
Athanase, from your pics your blade does not look to have been significantly shortened as the Teja Kinurung pamor pattern extends up to the tip. Regarding your question about the differentiation between the blades from Bali and Lombok, it is much too complex to be replied in a simple way but the krisses from Lombok got other influences (Java, Bugis) so many of them are not in pure balinese style as shown in the book "Keris di Lombok".
Regards