Keris Solo for identification

A. G. Maisey · 29th June 2018, 11:27 PM

Very nice Paul, very nice indeed, but if you have one, I'd change that very nice ivory hilt for a dark wood hilt, possibly a yudowinatan?

It is deemed to be good taste to have a hilt that is darker than the wrongko.

Really as it is now it looks wonderful, its just that the darker hilt is more in line with conformity.

Rick · 30th June 2018, 01:13 AM

This begs the question Alan.
What would this ivory jejeran be suitable with?
Or is it just bling?
The carving looks to be exceptional.

A. G. Maisey · 30th June 2018, 04:10 AM

Rick, I'm talking top level kraton taste. The elite in the Surakarta Kraton tend towards restraint. Its a case of "less is more". Rolls Royce type class, where you do it rather plain but top quality X 200%.

One of the established standards for top class dress combination is that the hilt should be at least a little bit darker than the atasan of the wrongko. Yeah, at night-time functions you'll see the diamond seluts come out, and sometimes diamonds on the pendok. But plain high quality is more or less the benchmark of good taste.

So just where does a brand new, dead white ivory jejeran belong? Frankly, I cannot see it in a kraton setting. Maybe in a non-kraton setting, plenty of opportunity there I guess. I've got several planar hilts in ivory, only one is new and white, that is mated to a wrongko that is also dead white.

This wrongko of Paul's is a real classic, nice old mamas pendok, its a terusan, or iras gandar, should this sort of wrongko be mated to new ivory hilt that has been made as a display piece? I think not. I'd like to see it with a good, old tayuman yudowinatan.

There is no doubt that this keris looks nice as it is, but it is a classic, in my opinion it would look better presented as a classic. In a kraton setting I cannot imagine who might be able to wear it the way it is.

Paul B. · 1st July 2018, 03:10 PM

So 'white always meets white'? Is that what you're saying Alan?
I am aware of the 'unwrtitten' rule that a handle should look darker than the scabbard. So it just means that ivory handles are only applicable as in the underneath pic?

BTW> Why are ivory Solo ukiran much more scarse than the Djogja ones from the same material?
Any clue why there is a kind of kendit in the scabbard depicted below? It is not a scratch.

A. G. Maisey · 1st July 2018, 10:14 PM

I don't know about the "always" thing Paul, all I know in this respect is what I've seen, and I can never recall seeing ivory dress actually being worn. I'm inclined to think that at least in Solo it could be more a display thing than something that has a place in the dress code.

Ladrangs are used for formal occasions. Ivory should not be exposed to sunlight. Gayams are for non-formal occasions. One really tries to avoid wearing a gayaman when one should be wearing a ladrangan. Just where does a complete ivory gayaman fit in? Just hypothesising now, but maybe at a wayang performance, or a public dance performance, but these days most people choose to wear Levis and batik, rather than Javanese dress.

But then keris are worn all over Jawa, I guess anything goes once you move to Jakarta or Surabaya. Jakarta in particular is not really regarded as a part of Jawa, of course it is not, but I have known a lot of people in Solo who have seemed to regard Jakarta as beyond the Pale, just as in 17th century Ireland only the Pale fell under English authority, and the area beyond the Pale was thought of as uncivilised, barbaric, so these Solo people regard Jakarta as almost a different country, not civilised at all. So, once outside the influence of a kraton, things change.

Why more ivory in Jogja than Solo? Keris in Jogja have become an industry, Jogja itself is easy for outsiders to penetrate, Solo on the other hand is very reserved, secretive, you do not get accepted to the "inside" very easily in Solo, but in Jogja its pretty much a matter of what you are worth. Keris craftsmen in Solo are people who are spread out all over the place and they work alone, in Jogja there can be a community of keris craftsmen. Jogja has higher production, lower standards. If ivory sells, ivory will be produced on the hope of speculative sale. Doesn't work like that in Solo.

The "kendit" is possibly because the carving needed to go close to the skin of the ivory.

Bjorn · 2nd July 2018, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

One of the established standards for top class dress combination is that the hilt should be at least a little bit darker than the atasan of the wrongko.

Hi Alan, do you happen to know if the same is customary in Yogya as well?

Bjorn · 2nd July 2018, 08:07 PM

I was looking up something in Jensen's Krisdisk just now, and happened to stumble across the below pic. If the ensemble is entirely authentic, it seems to suggest that in Yogyakarta it may not have been a custom to have a jejeran be of a darker colour than that of the wrongko.
Of course, this is a sample of only 1, so we really can't extrapolate with any certainty from only this photo.

A. G. Maisey · 2nd July 2018, 10:13 PM

Sorry Bjorn, I do not know the standards that apply amongst the Jogja elites.

Bjorn · 3rd July 2018, 08:33 PM

No worries, Alan.

I had actually noticed that Solo keris often have an ukiran that is darker than the wrongko, but I didn't know this was a custom or informal rule.

In future, I'll be more conscious of the colour combinations when looking at Yogya keris.

1st July 2018, 03:10 PM	#4
Paul B. Member Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 205	So 'white always meets white'? Is that what you're saying Alan? I am aware of the 'unwrtitten' rule that a handle should look darker than the scabbard. So it just means that ivory handles are only applicable as in the underneath pic? BTW> Why are ivory Solo ukiran much more scarse than the Djogja ones from the same material? Any clue why there is a kind of kendit in the scabbard depicted below? It is not a scratch. Attached Images

2nd July 2018, 08:07 PM	#7
Bjorn Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Netherlands Posts: 188	I was looking up something in Jensen's Krisdisk just now, and happened to stumble across the below pic. If the ensemble is entirely authentic, it seems to suggest that in Yogyakarta it may not have been a custom to have a jejeran be of a darker colour than that of the wrongko. Of course, this is a sample of only 1, so we really can't extrapolate with any certainty from only this photo. Attached Images

29th June 2018, 11:27 PM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Very nice Paul, very nice indeed, but if you have one, I'd change that very nice ivory hilt for a dark wood hilt, possibly a yudowinatan? It is deemed to be good taste to have a hilt that is darker than the wrongko. Really as it is now it looks wonderful, its just that the darker hilt is more in line with conformity.

30th June 2018, 01:13 AM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	This begs the question Alan. What would this ivory jejeran be suitable with? Or is it just bling? The carving looks to be exceptional.

30th June 2018, 04:10 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Rick, I'm talking top level kraton taste. The elite in the Surakarta Kraton tend towards restraint. Its a case of "less is more". Rolls Royce type class, where you do it rather plain but top quality X 200%. One of the established standards for top class dress combination is that the hilt should be at least a little bit darker than the atasan of the wrongko. Yeah, at night-time functions you'll see the diamond seluts come out, and sometimes diamonds on the pendok. But plain high quality is more or less the benchmark of good taste. So just where does a brand new, dead white ivory jejeran belong? Frankly, I cannot see it in a kraton setting. Maybe in a non-kraton setting, plenty of opportunity there I guess. I've got several planar hilts in ivory, only one is new and white, that is mated to a wrongko that is also dead white. This wrongko of Paul's is a real classic, nice old mamas pendok, its a terusan, or iras gandar, should this sort of wrongko be mated to new ivory hilt that has been made as a display piece? I think not. I'd like to see it with a good, old tayuman yudowinatan. There is no doubt that this keris looks nice as it is, but it is a classic, in my opinion it would look better presented as a classic. In a kraton setting I cannot imagine who might be able to wear it the way it is.

1st July 2018, 10:14 PM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	I don't know about the "always" thing Paul, all I know in this respect is what I've seen, and I can never recall seeing ivory dress actually being worn. I'm inclined to think that at least in Solo it could be more a display thing than something that has a place in the dress code. Ladrangs are used for formal occasions. Ivory should not be exposed to sunlight. Gayams are for non-formal occasions. One really tries to avoid wearing a gayaman when one should be wearing a ladrangan. Just where does a complete ivory gayaman fit in? Just hypothesising now, but maybe at a wayang performance, or a public dance performance, but these days most people choose to wear Levis and batik, rather than Javanese dress. But then keris are worn all over Jawa, I guess anything goes once you move to Jakarta or Surabaya. Jakarta in particular is not really regarded as a part of Jawa, of course it is not, but I have known a lot of people in Solo who have seemed to regard Jakarta as beyond the Pale, just as in 17th century Ireland only the Pale fell under English authority, and the area beyond the Pale was thought of as uncivilised, barbaric, so these Solo people regard Jakarta as almost a different country, not civilised at all. So, once outside the influence of a kraton, things change. Why more ivory in Jogja than Solo? Keris in Jogja have become an industry, Jogja itself is easy for outsiders to penetrate, Solo on the other hand is very reserved, secretive, you do not get accepted to the "inside" very easily in Solo, but in Jogja its pretty much a matter of what you are worth. Keris craftsmen in Solo are people who are spread out all over the place and they work alone, in Jogja there can be a community of keris craftsmen. Jogja has higher production, lower standards. If ivory sells, ivory will be produced on the hope of speculative sale. Doesn't work like that in Solo. The "kendit" is possibly because the carving needed to go close to the skin of the ivory.

2nd July 2018, 10:13 PM	#8
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Sorry Bjorn, I do not know the standards that apply amongst the Jogja elites.

3rd July 2018, 08:33 PM	#9
Bjorn Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Netherlands Posts: 188	No worries, Alan. I had actually noticed that Solo keris often have an ukiran that is darker than the wrongko, but I didn't know this was a custom or informal rule. In future, I'll be more conscious of the colour combinations when looking at Yogya keris.