Kalis / Kris / Keris Sundang / Solot / Sulok / Suluk:

[ariel]

And I thought that the fight for the name “Karud” was diabolically intense:-))))))

[Ian]

Originally Posted by ariel

And I thought that the fight for the name “Karud” was diabolically intense:-))))))

Ariel:

This thread will simmer for years and could well end up with hundreds of posts! The kar'd was just one weapon style. Ron has opened up both kris and barung for discussion, and we have not even started on barung yet.

You will notice some discussion of the term sarimanok here (interpreted as "beautiful bird"). That discussion extended into its own thread, which has indeed been a spirited debate. Ron has proposed that sarimanok actually refers to a mythical chicken/rooster that appears in the folk lore of the Maranao people of Mindanao, and by extension concludes that what Cato described as a kakatua pommel on kris and barung is actually a depiction of the mythical sarimanok. The term manok is widely used in the Philippines to refer specifically to a chicken. However, if we use the more generic translation of sarimanok as meaning beautiful bird, then the bird in question could be a kakatua. And so the beat goes on!

Ian.

[A. G. Maisey]

I would suggest that even if the word "sarimanok" --- or whatever equivalent spelling we care to use --- can be understood as "beautiful bird", that perhaps it really does not mean what the direct translation tells us it means.

Very often in keris related terminology we find that there are layers of knowledge. The first and most obvious layer gives a meaning that will satisfy those who have only a slight level of knowledge, the layers that follow will be intelligible to those with correspondingly higher levels of knowledge.

Maybe something similar is going on with our sarimanuk.

[David]

Originally Posted by Ian

You will notice some discussion of the term sarimanok here (interpreted as "beautiful bird"). That discussion extended into its own thread, which has indeed been a spirited debate. Ron has proposed that sarimanok actually refers to a mythical chicken/rooster that appears in the folk lore of the Maranao people of Mindanao, and by extension concludes that what Cato described as a kakatua pommel on kris and barung is actually a depiction of the mythical sarimanok. The term manok is widely used in the Philippines to refer specifically to a chicken. However, if we use the more generic translation of sarimanok as meaning beautiful bird, then the bird in question could be a kakatua. And so the beat goes on!

Perhaps i am picking at hairs here Ian, but Ron has not proposed the Sarimanok refers to this mythological bird. That much is pretty well established. It is also pretty well established that Sarimanok is not a kakatau (cockatoo) or any form of parrot. This bird is well known within the culture and has been depicted again and again in art and in connection with royalty and institutions.
The part that is being proposed by Ron that has not been clearly established yet is whether or not the intention of these Moro kris pommels that we know so well are indeed meant to represent the Sarimanok or if Cato was correct in calling them Kakatau. Obviously more evidence needs to be presented before either theory can be considered absolute fact. Since the Sarimanok does have a significant place within the culture as the name of a specific creature i would find some difficulty is using the word more generically to mean "beautiful bird".

[Battara]

Don't know if this helps, but in Tagalog "manok/manuk" refers to the chicken. "Sari" has various usages depending upon context, but it generally means something like "various". In this context could be be like "fantastic" chicken or bird.

[A. G. Maisey]

Jose, if the people who own this little piece of culture are anything like a number of other cultures in SE Asia, just maybe this "fantastic bird" --- or whatever --- does not really refer to any sort of bird at all, it might mean, or refer to something that is completely hidden from all but the people who were entitled to hold that knowledge.

Consider the position of birds in general, and some birds in particular in the belief systems of peoples indigenous to Maritime SE Asia.

[Ian]

Rather than turn this thread into another sarimanok discussion, I'm going to bring Ron's original thread on that subject back and add some new information that seems to support his idea.

Ian.

[Amuk Murugul]

Hullo everybody!

Some examples from the Pralamba sub-group merely to share.

Kalis Baladaw Piliang PraLamba:

1.
Blade: LxOALxWxT=50x65x12.56x1.30cm.
Handle: Ivory saboeng; grip of white-metal rings w/ widjaja motif.
Wt: 760g.

2.
Blade: LxOALxWxT=49x61x10.52x1.10cm.
Handle: Ivory pommel w/ widjaja motif on white-metal grip; twin-katig.
Wt: 595g.

3.
Blade: LxOALxWxT=40.5x53.0x9.72x0.87cm.
Handle: Ivory kapoejoeh, grip w/ white-metal bands and twine.
Wt: 379g.

Best,

[Amuk Murugul]

Hullo Everybody!

Just to share.
Each bought for a mere pittance.
Kalis Dapaw Banasi (left) was totally covered in rust. Had to disassemble and clean (No sign of break on trunk; either original or smoothed by a previous user).
Kalis Dasag Piliang (right) was under-appreciated. Cleaning revealed its true colours (twist-core).

Best,

[Battara]

Is your terminology Indonesian?

[Amuk Murugul]

Originally Posted by Battara

Is your terminology Indonesian?

Hi Battara,
In answer to your question, the terminolgy is not Indo. Language used is that of the area (Brunei, Sulu, Cebu, etc., although rather archaic).
Best,

[Amuk Murugul]

Hullo everybody!

Just dropping in this illustration.
My apologies should anyone find it rather esoteric; but it is basic, “generic”, and complies with the relevant “cosmology”.
It has stood me in good stead these past decades.
Hope it’s of some use.

Best,