Keris lurus for comment and discussion

jagabuwana · 12th June 2018, 10:37 AM

I never thought of the mendak as a practical shock absorber, very interesting. Funnily enough my decent command of Bahasa Indonesia means that I am aware of how to action/verb a noun, although I do get confused then when mixing English and Indonesian (eg if menangguh is the verb in Indonesian, then I am unsure if it is doing or giving tangguh in English). Not that it matters, seeing as it's not an English word anyway, and I think you all got what I meant. Thanks for all that info regarding mendak and tangguh, Alan.

So yes Rick it does seem that the collapsed mendak that it came with seems to have come under some sort of stress from above. Makes me wonder if this keris was ever used to stick anyone, though I guess it's more likely that whoever fit this new ukiran may have pushed it in way too far and hard and thus depressed the mendak. Still, I always wonder where a keris has been, whose hands it's passed through and what it has seen and done in its heyday, for no reason other than curiosity and fascination. Of course I know there is no way of knowing this in most cases.

But back to tangguh Tuban. I understand that there is no agreement (or perhaps consensus is a better word?) as to whether tangguh should be, or is a classification according to the keris' style or type, period, or perhaps all three.

So Alan, when you personally say that it's a pretty safe bet that this is keris tangguh Tuban, are you making a statement on the time period of when it was potentially created ie. during the time of Kerajaan Tuban, or that it was made in this period but not necessarily in Tuban and that it is simply a Tuban-style blade, or none of the above and perhaps "tangguh Tuban" can only mean that this is a keris that fits the parameters of what is said to be Tuban keris with no attempt given about it's location of manufacture and age?

For clarity:- I am only trying to get a better understanding of both (1) tangguh itself and (2) precisely what you mean and when you say that this could be tangguh Tuban.

A. G. Maisey · 12th June 2018, 01:40 PM

Novan, I do not consider that hilt to be "new". To me it has the look of something with good age, my estimate would be pre-WWII, post 1850.

In respect of tangguh.

Amongst the very serious keris people whom I have known, there is no consistency of agreement as to exactly what tangguh really represents. The man who taught me how to use tangguh and how to identify the characteristics held the very firm belief that if a keris was classifiable as tangguh Majapahit, it had been undoubtedly made in the Kingdom of Majapahit, during the period of Majapahit rule. This man had been the penangguh for the Boworoso Tosanaji, an old and highly respected keris appreciation group that was formed up under the guidance of Panembahan Harjonagoro. My teacher was Empu Suparman Supowijoyo (Alm.) of the Karaton Surakarta Hadiningrat.

So, from the elevated perspective of these people when something is classifiable as one tangguh or another, it was beyond doubt made at that time, in that place.

In such elevated company I would never for one moment disagree.

On the other hand, another highly respected keris authority, who was also an empu, and whom I counted as a good friend from the mid-1970's, until the time he left us, did not hold quite the same opinion as Empu Suparman and some other people. This second man was Empu Pauzan Pusposukadgo (Alm.), also of the Karaton Surakarta Hadiningrat. On the subject of tangguh, Pak Pauzan would say :-_ "tangguh nggak sungguh" : broadly, "tangguh is not real".

I would never disagree with him either.

If one wishes to gain understanding from Javanese sources one listens and agrees, one does not try to elevate oneself by demonstrating how clever one is. Always look up, never look down.

Tangguh is a part of a belief system, accept it and believe, or do not believe as you wish. It is like a lot of things Javanese:- belief makes it real:- if sufficient people believe something then that makes the belief reality.

However, if I move away from Javanese environments and patterns of thought and behaviour and address the subject of tangguh in a dry and rational fashion, I find that I am forced to explore the reasons for its very existence and what its root purpose was.

Here is not the place to address this, I have written briefly on the subject, and one day I will perhaps write at length on it. In the meantime, I suggest that you may extract an answer to your question from this:-

http://www.kerisattosanaji.com/keristangguh.html

When possible I avoid the use of the word "tangguh". The word itself, the purpose of the system, the meaning of the classification, the way in which the system should be used, are all so badly misunderstood and corrupt at the present time that whenever possible I substitute the word "classification" for "tangguh". Identification of a tangguh effectively classifies the keris as something, so I prefer to skirt around the mire that tangguh has become and call it what it is:- a classification.

Novan, you use the word "kerajaan" to refer to Tuban.
Tuban was a trading port, not a kerajaan. It was a part of the North Coast trading network, a place where people brought their goods for sale, and where others came to buy those goods, take them somewhere else and sell them.

In elite Javanese eyes, keris and other tosanaji that is classifiable as Tuban had no honour attached to it, because it was trade goods. An integral part of the value system that is a part of the tangguh system is connected with honour.

12th June 2018, 10:37 AM	#1
jagabuwana Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 290	I never thought of the mendak as a practical shock absorber, very interesting. Funnily enough my decent command of Bahasa Indonesia means that I am aware of how to action/verb a noun, although I do get confused then when mixing English and Indonesian (eg if menangguh is the verb in Indonesian, then I am unsure if it is doing or giving tangguh in English). Not that it matters, seeing as it's not an English word anyway, and I think you all got what I meant. Thanks for all that info regarding mendak and tangguh, Alan. So yes Rick it does seem that the collapsed mendak that it came with seems to have come under some sort of stress from above. Makes me wonder if this keris was ever used to stick anyone, though I guess it's more likely that whoever fit this new ukiran may have pushed it in way too far and hard and thus depressed the mendak. Still, I always wonder where a keris has been, whose hands it's passed through and what it has seen and done in its heyday, for no reason other than curiosity and fascination. Of course I know there is no way of knowing this in most cases. But back to tangguh Tuban. I understand that there is no agreement (or perhaps consensus is a better word?) as to whether tangguh should be, or is a classification according to the keris' style or type, period, or perhaps all three. So Alan, when you personally say that it's a pretty safe bet that this is keris tangguh Tuban, are you making a statement on the time period of when it was potentially created ie. during the time of Kerajaan Tuban, or that it was made in this period but not necessarily in Tuban and that it is simply a Tuban-style blade, or none of the above and perhaps "tangguh Tuban" can only mean that this is a keris that fits the parameters of what is said to be Tuban keris with no attempt given about it's location of manufacture and age? For clarity:- I am only trying to get a better understanding of both (1) tangguh itself and (2) precisely what you mean and when you say that this could be tangguh Tuban.

12th June 2018, 01:40 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Novan, I do not consider that hilt to be "new". To me it has the look of something with good age, my estimate would be pre-WWII, post 1850. In respect of tangguh. Amongst the very serious keris people whom I have known, there is no consistency of agreement as to exactly what tangguh really represents. The man who taught me how to use tangguh and how to identify the characteristics held the very firm belief that if a keris was classifiable as tangguh Majapahit, it had been undoubtedly made in the Kingdom of Majapahit, during the period of Majapahit rule. This man had been the penangguh for the Boworoso Tosanaji, an old and highly respected keris appreciation group that was formed up under the guidance of Panembahan Harjonagoro. My teacher was Empu Suparman Supowijoyo (Alm.) of the Karaton Surakarta Hadiningrat. So, from the elevated perspective of these people when something is classifiable as one tangguh or another, it was beyond doubt made at that time, in that place. In such elevated company I would never for one moment disagree. On the other hand, another highly respected keris authority, who was also an empu, and whom I counted as a good friend from the mid-1970's, until the time he left us, did not hold quite the same opinion as Empu Suparman and some other people. This second man was Empu Pauzan Pusposukadgo (Alm.), also of the Karaton Surakarta Hadiningrat. On the subject of tangguh, Pak Pauzan would say :-_ "tangguh nggak sungguh" : broadly, "tangguh is not real". I would never disagree with him either. If one wishes to gain understanding from Javanese sources one listens and agrees, one does not try to elevate oneself by demonstrating how clever one is. Always look up, never look down. Tangguh is a part of a belief system, accept it and believe, or do not believe as you wish. It is like a lot of things Javanese:- belief makes it real:- if sufficient people believe something then that makes the belief reality. However, if I move away from Javanese environments and patterns of thought and behaviour and address the subject of tangguh in a dry and rational fashion, I find that I am forced to explore the reasons for its very existence and what its root purpose was. Here is not the place to address this, I have written briefly on the subject, and one day I will perhaps write at length on it. In the meantime, I suggest that you may extract an answer to your question from this:- http://www.kerisattosanaji.com/keristangguh.html When possible I avoid the use of the word "tangguh". The word itself, the purpose of the system, the meaning of the classification, the way in which the system should be used, are all so badly misunderstood and corrupt at the present time that whenever possible I substitute the word "classification" for "tangguh". Identification of a tangguh effectively classifies the keris as something, so I prefer to skirt around the mire that tangguh has become and call it what it is:- a classification. Novan, you use the word "kerajaan" to refer to Tuban. Tuban was a trading port, not a kerajaan. It was a part of the North Coast trading network, a place where people brought their goods for sale, and where others came to buy those goods, take them somewhere else and sell them. In elite Javanese eyes, keris and other tosanaji that is classifiable as Tuban had no honour attached to it, because it was trade goods. An integral part of the value system that is a part of the tangguh system is connected with honour.