Unknown keris blade, Solo or Madura?

Paul B. · 7th June 2018, 08:02 PM

Documented as a Solo kris but a more knowledgeable person assumed Madura as an origin. The clothes don't tell me so but that is not a definitive proof.

A. G. Maisey · 8th June 2018, 03:56 AM

This blade is certainly not Solo, but Madura?

I just do not know. It might be, but if so, pretty recent --- it doesn't look recent, however even if we do allow recent Madura, there are more than a few things that are not consistent with that.

I do not want to guess where it originated --- not from a pic anyway.

Paul B. · 8th June 2018, 11:20 AM

You may learn from the peksi? It is not as massive as you might think ( wide base of the ganja).

A. G. Maisey · 8th June 2018, 01:22 PM

Paul, with my apologies, "peksi" is Krama for bird, "pesi" is an alternative spelling and pronunciation for "bird", brought about because the "k" in "peksi" is a glottal stop and is not usually heard by a non-native speaker.

But the word for a blade tang is "pesi", it is never "peksi".

I know that we find "peksi" as the word for "tang" in many places.

They are all wrong.

Looking closely at your photos of the gonjo area, it appears that the gonjo might be held in place with adhesive rather than by a metal to metal fit.

Is this so?

Paul B. · 8th June 2018, 03:00 PM

As far as I can see it is metal to metal fit.
The word peksi is a commonly used misinterpretation.

A. G. Maisey · 8th June 2018, 10:30 PM

Yes, "peksi" is incorrect, and it is a common error. It is more than that though.The incorrect use of the word "peksi" is a source of amusement for most of the Javanese keris fanciers I know, whenever they encounter it. It is just one more perceived straw of ignorance that some people will use to demonstrate that unless a person is Javanese and can speak Javanese, they cannot possibly understand the keris. It would be nice if we could extinguish this source of amusement.

Back to the keris.
Paul, you have it in your hand, I only have photos, but it looks to me as if there is an adhesive between the blade base and the gonjo base, and that there is also adhesive between the gonjo and the tang. The adhesive that is commonly used to fill these areas is normally a two part resin such as Araldite, mixed with iron filings or black artists colour.

We normally test if adhesive exists, with a needle, sometimes it is necessary to heat the needle.

This adhesive fill is common, even usual, for a very old or worn blade, it has been used in Jawa since two part resin became available ---1950's? --- its purpose in an old blade is to prevent further deterioration, and in an old, worn blade it is regarded as quite acceptable.

However, since about 1980-'82, it has also been used by some new makers as a shortcut to fix the gonjo. This blade of yours is not old, I cannot see a key used in the gonjo fit, the other acceptable way of fitting a gonjo if no key is used , is to work around the pesi and tighten the gonjo metal with a hammer and punch, this is easier and faster than using the key method, but it normally leaves punch marks on top of the gonjo and around the pesi. In the photo I cannot see these punch marks.

Because I cannot see the expected evidence of a metal to metal fit, my suspicion is that adhesive was used to fit the gonjo. If you have tested as I outlined, and there is no adhesive, then I still have no idea of exactly where this blade might come from. However, if there is adhesive, and especially if that adhesive is between the pesi and the tang, then this blade is most probably a recent Madura production, say, within the last 40 years.

Paul B. · 9th June 2018, 07:31 PM

Thanks, I tested it with a red heat needle and just some old dirt came out. With a magnifying glass I saw the metal to metal contact.

7th June 2018, 08:02 PM	#1
Paul B. Member Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 205	Documented as a Solo kris but a more knowledgeable person assumed Madura as an origin. The clothes don't tell me so but that is not a definitive proof. Attached Images

8th June 2018, 11:20 AM	#3
Paul B. Member Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 205	You may learn from the peksi? It is not as massive as you might think ( wide base of the ganja). Attached Images

8th June 2018, 03:56 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	This blade is certainly not Solo, but Madura? I just do not know. It might be, but if so, pretty recent --- it doesn't look recent, however even if we do allow recent Madura, there are more than a few things that are not consistent with that. I do not want to guess where it originated --- not from a pic anyway.

8th June 2018, 01:22 PM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	Paul, with my apologies, "peksi" is Krama for bird, "pesi" is an alternative spelling and pronunciation for "bird", brought about because the "k" in "peksi" is a glottal stop and is not usually heard by a non-native speaker. But the word for a blade tang is "pesi", it is never "peksi". I know that we find "peksi" as the word for "tang" in many places. They are all wrong. Looking closely at your photos of the gonjo area, it appears that the gonjo might be held in place with adhesive rather than by a metal to metal fit. Is this so?

8th June 2018, 03:00 PM	#5
Paul B. Member Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 205	As far as I can see it is metal to metal fit. The word peksi is a commonly used misinterpretation.

8th June 2018, 10:30 PM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	Yes, "peksi" is incorrect, and it is a common error. It is more than that though.The incorrect use of the word "peksi" is a source of amusement for most of the Javanese keris fanciers I know, whenever they encounter it. It is just one more perceived straw of ignorance that some people will use to demonstrate that unless a person is Javanese and can speak Javanese, they cannot possibly understand the keris. It would be nice if we could extinguish this source of amusement. Back to the keris. Paul, you have it in your hand, I only have photos, but it looks to me as if there is an adhesive between the blade base and the gonjo base, and that there is also adhesive between the gonjo and the tang. The adhesive that is commonly used to fill these areas is normally a two part resin such as Araldite, mixed with iron filings or black artists colour. We normally test if adhesive exists, with a needle, sometimes it is necessary to heat the needle. This adhesive fill is common, even usual, for a very old or worn blade, it has been used in Jawa since two part resin became available ---1950's? --- its purpose in an old blade is to prevent further deterioration, and in an old, worn blade it is regarded as quite acceptable. However, since about 1980-'82, it has also been used by some new makers as a shortcut to fix the gonjo. This blade of yours is not old, I cannot see a key used in the gonjo fit, the other acceptable way of fitting a gonjo if no key is used , is to work around the pesi and tighten the gonjo metal with a hammer and punch, this is easier and faster than using the key method, but it normally leaves punch marks on top of the gonjo and around the pesi. In the photo I cannot see these punch marks. Because I cannot see the expected evidence of a metal to metal fit, my suspicion is that adhesive was used to fit the gonjo. If you have tested as I outlined, and there is no adhesive, then I still have no idea of exactly where this blade might come from. However, if there is adhesive, and especially if that adhesive is between the pesi and the tang, then this blade is most probably a recent Madura production, say, within the last 40 years.

9th June 2018, 07:31 PM	#7
Paul B. Member Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 205	Thanks, I tested it with a red heat needle and just some old dirt came out. With a magnifying glass I saw the metal to metal contact.