1821 Variation for an Indian Officer Circa 1837?

MacCathain · 8th May 2018, 06:08 PM

Just tuned into this thread and saw the two sabre examples in the first few posts on which are etched some unusual characters. I believe these are not a language, per se, but rather what Lhoste and Buigne call "enigmatic symbols" in their book, Armes Blanches (pps 110-113).

The authors describe some theories on the meaning attached to these inscriptions: one is that they are forms of Kabbalistic script, another is that they are astrological or zodiacal in nature. The text includes illustrations of many examples of the script taken from French swords of the late 18th and early 19th centuries, and they bear more than a striking resemblance to the etching on the swords posted in this thread.

Just what sort of mystical properties this script imparted to the swords, and/or their owners, seems to be lost to time. If I get some time, I'll do a full translation of the French text and post it here.

Bryce · 8th May 2018, 11:23 PM

G'day Guys,

Thank you for your interest in my sword.

Roland, pipe-back blades seem to have first appeared in Britain around 1800 and I agree, the British swordsmiths may have been influenced by T-backed Turkish or Indo-Persian swords. Your tulwar has a blade that wouldn't look out of place on an early 19th century European sword. Your French light cavalry officer sabre was probably wholly manufactured in Solingen, not Turkey or India. I have seen quite a few Solingen manufactured mechanical Damascus blades from this period.

MacCathain, I don't have a copy of Lhoste and Buigne, but I agree, these types of "enigmatic symbols" are not uncommon on European swords from this period, but this particular arrangement of the panel of symbols and curling comet/foliage design seems to be unique to British swords.

Cheers,
Bryce

Cathey · 9th May 2018, 09:35 AM

Hi Bryce

Love this sword, how do you keep finding the most interesting variations?

Cheers Cathey and Rex

Jens Nordlunde · 9th May 2018, 05:48 PM

Here is a picture showing Major-General Richard Hilton with some of his officers. Taken about 15 years before WWII.

Bryce · 11th May 2018, 06:04 AM

G'day Guys,
Here is another example of false Damascus etching and mystical symbols on a British sword. This is a 10th (or Prince of Wales) Hussars regimental pattern sabre dating from 1808. The blade was probably imported from Solingen in the late 1790's and mounted in England.
Cheers,
Bryce

9th May 2018, 09:35 AM	#3
Cathey Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: adelaide south australia Posts: 284	Magnificent sword Bryce Hi Bryce Love this sword, how do you keep finding the most interesting variations? Cheers Cathey and Rex

9th May 2018, 05:48 PM	#4
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Here is a picture showing Major-General Richard Hilton with some of his officers. Taken about 15 years before WWII. Attached Images

11th May 2018, 06:04 AM	#5
Bryce Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: North Queensland, Australia Posts: 197	G'day Guys, Here is another example of false Damascus etching and mystical symbols on a British sword. This is a 10th (or Prince of Wales) Hussars regimental pattern sabre dating from 1808. The blade was probably imported from Solingen in the late 1790's and mounted in England. Cheers, Bryce Attached Images

8th May 2018, 06:08 PM	#1
MacCathain Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Posts: 68	Just tuned into this thread and saw the two sabre examples in the first few posts on which are etched some unusual characters. I believe these are not a language, per se, but rather what Lhoste and Buigne call "enigmatic symbols" in their book, Armes Blanches (pps 110-113). The authors describe some theories on the meaning attached to these inscriptions: one is that they are forms of Kabbalistic script, another is that they are astrological or zodiacal in nature. The text includes illustrations of many examples of the script taken from French swords of the late 18th and early 19th centuries, and they bear more than a striking resemblance to the etching on the swords posted in this thread. Just what sort of mystical properties this script imparted to the swords, and/or their owners, seems to be lost to time. If I get some time, I'll do a full translation of the French text and post it here.

8th May 2018, 11:23 PM	#2
Bryce Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: North Queensland, Australia Posts: 197	G'day Guys, Thank you for your interest in my sword. Roland, pipe-back blades seem to have first appeared in Britain around 1800 and I agree, the British swordsmiths may have been influenced by T-backed Turkish or Indo-Persian swords. Your tulwar has a blade that wouldn't look out of place on an early 19th century European sword. Your French light cavalry officer sabre was probably wholly manufactured in Solingen, not Turkey or India. I have seen quite a few Solingen manufactured mechanical Damascus blades from this period. MacCathain, I don't have a copy of Lhoste and Buigne, but I agree, these types of "enigmatic symbols" are not uncommon on European swords from this period, but this particular arrangement of the panel of symbols and curling comet/foliage design seems to be unique to British swords. Cheers, Bryce