Info Needed On Tombak

David · 12th April 2018, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert

I could find on them here on the forum I still had no idea of how to tell an original from a tourist item, that is unless it was so poorly made that it was quite obvious it was never meant to be used for much more than a paperweight.

While i do see newly forged tombak from time to time on ePray i can't say that i have seen them being manufactured as tourist items. Maybe i need to get out more.

Sajen · 12th April 2018, 07:29 PM

Hello Robert,

I was watching this tomak, you get it for a very good price, congrats!

It seems that you got recently attracted to Indonesian blades.

I would follow Alans advice: " I'd possibly give it a WD40 soak, followed by brushing with a stiff brush, plastic or bristle, then spend time under good light with magnification and a pick, I like a saddlers awl for this sort of thing. Little bits of steel wool on the end of a sate stick can clean smooth areas."
But I don't like antique tombaks dressed as "golok", it's a typical Indonesian fashion, I like them mounted on a custom stand but this is my pure own opinion, others will like them presented the other way.
Attached are a few examples dressed as "golok" taken from the net.

Best regards,
Detlef

A. G. Maisey · 13th April 2018, 12:41 AM

This is actually a pretty fair old tombak Robert, in fact you've done quite well.

As for me doing it, that is not really practical, I live in Australia, and the type of job I do is far too expensive for a tombak like yours, Australian hourly rates are nowhere near Indonesian hourly rates, then there is shipping cost. But I would be prepared to guide you if you wished to attempt the job yourself.

I may be able to provide a pic of the type of dress I'm talking about, at the moment I do not have time to look for an image.

Kai, I no longer use pineapple juice for cleaning, the tinned stuff is rubbish, the stuff I can produce myself from fresh pineapple and then strain is too expensive and too much trouble. These days I use ordinary white cooking vinegar. It usually takes upwards of a week in vinegar to get a blade clean. I lift and brush and rinse once or twice a day during this soak.

The reaction you describe that occurs with some blades during the cleaning process is common, it usually happens with old blades and it would probably take place with Robert's tombak. The reason I dislike using this as a 'shortcut' clean + stain method is because there is invariably residual rust left on the blade that has been coloured and hidden by the stain. The finished job looks more or less OK, but it is only a short term fix that improves appearance, it does not get rid of all the rust and it does not provide the protection of a new, competent, stain job.

I use the word 'competent' because a lot of the commercial work done here in Jawa is very similar to the method you describe. In fact, most of the people who do stain work in Solo do not like it if you present them with an already cleaned blade to stain, simply because they take the inadequate shortcut method that you describe and then charge top price. I doubt that many collectors can tell the difference between a good, professional warangan job, and a 'quick fix'.

Treeslicer · 13th April 2018, 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

While i do see newly forged tombak from time to time on ePray i can't say that i have seen them being manufactured as tourist items. Maybe i need to get out more.

Why sell to a city souvenir shop owner for $X, or wait for tourists to show up at your perapen and sell to them for $2X, when you can sell direct to collectors on eBay for $4X plus shipping? The intent and quality are, however, the same. The developing entrepreneurship that Ann Dunham remarked upon in her dissertation has spread globally via the Internet. I'm especially impressed with the initiative of the guys who've started selling their roughly forged but unfinished keris w/gonjo blanks via eBay.

Robert, congrats on the pusaka tombak. It's a real beauty.

A. G. Maisey · 13th April 2018, 11:56 AM

Here are some images of tombak.

The pic showing a number of tombak mounted in 'stel golok' is a display in the Museum Radya Pustaka in Solo.

The tombak shown mounted on long shafts is a display in the Keris Museum in Solo.

In Javanese culture a tombak can have equal, or even greater importance as a pusaka than a keris. Many royal pusakas are tombak.

When tombak were actually used as weapons a shaft could be up to 4 or 5 meters in length, usual length for a levy was around 2 meters, only skilled specialists used the longer shafts, very often for no more than crowd control.

Tombak have been mounted as daggers for probably as long as there have been tombak. An ordinary man who could have been expected to be called up for duty by his lord in times of war would often remove the blade from his spear and mount it as a dagger for peacetime use. When called up for duty he would remount it as a spear or lance.

For about the last 100 years or so, alterations in ceiling heights and room sizes have seen many, if not most Javanese people who have pusaka tombak, remount those tombak on short display shafts or in stel golok, as a dagger.

It must be remembered that just as with keris, for a Javanese person it is only the blade that has spiritual value or as pusaka, or for any other cultural reason. Shafts, scabbards, hilts are no more than dress that is changed according to societal needs or personal preference.

However, the blade only has spiritual value when it is of metal. Many poor people when called upon to perform levy duty for their lord would simply cut a length of bambu and slice an angled point on it. The Den Pasar Museum has just such a bambu tombak on display.

PS --- lousy pics, sorry, taken on the run with a P&S. The Radya Pustaka is one of those museum where they lend you a white cane as you enter, and both these museums are so full of reflections that it is virtually impossible to take decent shots with a camera that is unsupported by other equipment.

Robert · 15th April 2018, 03:26 AM

It has been a long day but I wanted to thank everyone for all the information and photos that you have shared with me so far. The tombak arrived today and after a wipe down with WD40 and scrubbing with a wash cloth I have taken the following photos. Please excuse the poor quality as I was rushed with the rain about to start. As can now be easily seen the methuk is indeed a separate piece from the rest of the blade and tang. I am not sure, but the white material between the methuk and the tang appears to be either thin cloth, some form of adhesive or possibly paper. To get a better idea of what this could be I will take a better look at it tomorrow with the help of a magnifying glass. As bed is calling and I must answer, I again thank everyone for responding to my questions.

Best,
Robert

12th April 2018, 07:29 PM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,212	Hello Robert, I was watching this tomak, you get it for a very good price, congrats! It seems that you got recently attracted to Indonesian blades. I would follow Alans advice: " I'd possibly give it a WD40 soak, followed by brushing with a stiff brush, plastic or bristle, then spend time under good light with magnification and a pick, I like a saddlers awl for this sort of thing. Little bits of steel wool on the end of a sate stick can clean smooth areas." But I don't like antique tombaks dressed as "golok", it's a typical Indonesian fashion, I like them mounted on a custom stand but this is my pure own opinion, others will like them presented the other way. Attached are a few examples dressed as "golok" taken from the net. Best regards, Detlef Attached Images

13th April 2018, 11:56 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Here are some images of tombak. The pic showing a number of tombak mounted in 'stel golok' is a display in the Museum Radya Pustaka in Solo. The tombak shown mounted on long shafts is a display in the Keris Museum in Solo. In Javanese culture a tombak can have equal, or even greater importance as a pusaka than a keris. Many royal pusakas are tombak. When tombak were actually used as weapons a shaft could be up to 4 or 5 meters in length, usual length for a levy was around 2 meters, only skilled specialists used the longer shafts, very often for no more than crowd control. Tombak have been mounted as daggers for probably as long as there have been tombak. An ordinary man who could have been expected to be called up for duty by his lord in times of war would often remove the blade from his spear and mount it as a dagger for peacetime use. When called up for duty he would remount it as a spear or lance. For about the last 100 years or so, alterations in ceiling heights and room sizes have seen many, if not most Javanese people who have pusaka tombak, remount those tombak on short display shafts or in stel golok, as a dagger. It must be remembered that just as with keris, for a Javanese person it is only the blade that has spiritual value or as pusaka, or for any other cultural reason. Shafts, scabbards, hilts are no more than dress that is changed according to societal needs or personal preference. However, the blade only has spiritual value when it is of metal. Many poor people when called upon to perform levy duty for their lord would simply cut a length of bambu and slice an angled point on it. The Den Pasar Museum has just such a bambu tombak on display. PS --- lousy pics, sorry, taken on the run with a P&S. The Radya Pustaka is one of those museum where they lend you a white cane as you enter, and both these museums are so full of reflections that it is virtually impossible to take decent shots with a camera that is unsupported by other equipment. Attached Images

15th April 2018, 03:26 AM	#6
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	It has been a long day but I wanted to thank everyone for all the information and photos that you have shared with me so far. The tombak arrived today and after a wipe down with WD40 and scrubbing with a wash cloth I have taken the following photos. Please excuse the poor quality as I was rushed with the rain about to start. As can now be easily seen the methuk is indeed a separate piece from the rest of the blade and tang. I am not sure, but the white material between the methuk and the tang appears to be either thin cloth, some form of adhesive or possibly paper. To get a better idea of what this could be I will take a better look at it tomorrow with the help of a magnifying glass. As bed is calling and I must answer, I again thank everyone for responding to my questions. Best, Robert Attached Images

13th April 2018, 12:41 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	This is actually a pretty fair old tombak Robert, in fact you've done quite well. As for me doing it, that is not really practical, I live in Australia, and the type of job I do is far too expensive for a tombak like yours, Australian hourly rates are nowhere near Indonesian hourly rates, then there is shipping cost. But I would be prepared to guide you if you wished to attempt the job yourself. I may be able to provide a pic of the type of dress I'm talking about, at the moment I do not have time to look for an image. Kai, I no longer use pineapple juice for cleaning, the tinned stuff is rubbish, the stuff I can produce myself from fresh pineapple and then strain is too expensive and too much trouble. These days I use ordinary white cooking vinegar. It usually takes upwards of a week in vinegar to get a blade clean. I lift and brush and rinse once or twice a day during this soak. The reaction you describe that occurs with some blades during the cleaning process is common, it usually happens with old blades and it would probably take place with Robert's tombak. The reason I dislike using this as a 'shortcut' clean + stain method is because there is invariably residual rust left on the blade that has been coloured and hidden by the stain. The finished job looks more or less OK, but it is only a short term fix that improves appearance, it does not get rid of all the rust and it does not provide the protection of a new, competent, stain job. I use the word 'competent' because a lot of the commercial work done here in Jawa is very similar to the method you describe. In fact, most of the people who do stain work in Solo do not like it if you present them with an already cleaned blade to stain, simply because they take the inadequate shortcut method that you describe and then charge top price. I doubt that many collectors can tell the difference between a good, professional warangan job, and a 'quick fix'.