Unusual nimcha blade: need help

Kubur · 7th April 2018, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

As a rule, Nimchas carry curved saber blade, and the majority I have encountered thus far are European trade examples.

Hi Ariel
I've seen many straight blades on nimchas, it's not uncommon,
most of the time old imported blades
But I can't say nothing about this blade.
Kubur

ariel · 8th April 2018, 01:41 AM

Here is the distal part of the blade with converging fullers.
I checked all my Arabian swords, including 2 Nimchas from Morocco: none of them have a ricasso, including trade European blades.

TVV · 8th April 2018, 02:27 AM

Ariel, glad you acquired this sword and thank you for sharing it here for discussion. From what I remember from the auction pictures you have also done an excellent job cleaning it. I wonder if the blade could be Indian due to the ricasso and the uneven fullering.

Teodor

fernando · 8th April 2018, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TVV

... I wonder if the blade could be Indian due to the ricasso and the uneven fullering...

That's what i was daring to guess ... on an uneducated basis, though.

Kubur · 8th April 2018, 02:05 PM

Me too, Indian is reasonnable.
Now the question is do you think that the blade was added by a collector recently or in Morocco in the 18th 19th c.?
I'm very suspicious about an Indian blade on a Moroccan nimcha...

ariel · 8th April 2018, 02:13 PM

Guys,
Ricasso serves as a differentiating sign only between Indian and Persian Shamshir blades. Many European blades had ricasso and I wonder whether Indians not borrowed the idea of a ricasso from Europe.
I will have to look at my Indian straight- bladed ones.
Thanks to Jens for his gentle hint.
Fernando, did the converging fullers help you?
TVV, the cleaning job has just begun:-) Its wooden handle is dirty, dry and cracked, and has a lot of nasty thin splinters and worm holes. I will have to polish it, otherwise I would not be able to hold it without thick gloves. Then the natural wood color will disappear. Would staining it ( say, dark mahogany) be appropriate? Also, would filling the holes with stainable filler be OK?

ariel · 8th April 2018, 02:18 PM

Kubur,
No worry here about recent manipulations. It is all as original, as the moment it was created.

But I share your doubt about the Indian origin of the blade. I tend to think it is one of the multiple trade European ones and that is exactly why I posted it here.

fernando · 8th April 2018, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

...Fernando, did the converging fullers help you? ...

As i said, just an un-educated guess. One based on sight of some Indian fullering fashion, as seen, for one, in page 105 of Jorge Caravana collection catalogue (Rites of Power), which i assume you have a copy. But probably this is the wrong issue.

-

ariel · 8th April 2018, 06:59 PM

Yes, I do. I even have an identical one:-)
But this is a Tanjore katar commonly attributable to 16 century with a triangular form. One cannot have any other fullering.
We are talking about later swords, don’t we?

Any similar sword examples from 18-9 century?

I am not trying to be stubborn, just want to get to the bottom of it if possible.
I asked an acquaintance of mine who is very good in European swords, but he couldn’t place it.

Could the moderator create a link to the European section of this Forum?

8th April 2018, 01:41 AM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Here is the distal part of the blade with converging fullers. I checked all my Arabian swords, including 2 Nimchas from Morocco: none of them have a ricasso, including trade European blades. Attached Images

8th April 2018, 02:27 AM	#3
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,660	Ariel, glad you acquired this sword and thank you for sharing it here for discussion. From what I remember from the auction pictures you have also done an excellent job cleaning it. I wonder if the blade could be Indian due to the ricasso and the uneven fullering. Teodor

8th April 2018, 02:05 PM	#5
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Me too, Indian is reasonnable. Now the question is do you think that the blade was added by a collector recently or in Morocco in the 18th 19th c.? I'm very suspicious about an Indian blade on a Moroccan nimcha...

8th April 2018, 02:13 PM	#6
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Guys, Ricasso serves as a differentiating sign only between Indian and Persian Shamshir blades. Many European blades had ricasso and I wonder whether Indians not borrowed the idea of a ricasso from Europe. I will have to look at my Indian straight- bladed ones. Thanks to Jens for his gentle hint. Fernando, did the converging fullers help you? TVV, the cleaning job has just begun:-) Its wooden handle is dirty, dry and cracked, and has a lot of nasty thin splinters and worm holes. I will have to polish it, otherwise I would not be able to hold it without thick gloves. Then the natural wood color will disappear. Would staining it ( say, dark mahogany) be appropriate? Also, would filling the holes with stainable filler be OK?

8th April 2018, 02:18 PM	#7
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Kubur, No worry here about recent manipulations. It is all as original, as the moment it was created. But I share your doubt about the Indian origin of the blade. I tend to think it is one of the multiple trade European ones and that is exactly why I posted it here.

8th April 2018, 06:59 PM	#9
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Yes, I do. I even have an identical one:-) But this is a Tanjore katar commonly attributable to 16 century with a triangular form. One cannot have any other fullering. We are talking about later swords, don’t we? Any similar sword examples from 18-9 century? I am not trying to be stubborn, just want to get to the bottom of it if possible. I asked an acquaintance of mine who is very good in European swords, but he couldn’t place it. Could the moderator create a link to the European section of this Forum?