South-East Asian sword with a Persian trade blade for discussion

kai · 15th March 2018, 01:16 PM

P.S.: Any hints on provenance, Tatyana?

Norman McCormick · 15th March 2018, 09:20 PM

Hi Tatyana,
Unusual and interesting piece and yes if only these could talk and tell their stories. Here is my rather battered Persian trade blade of similar style for comparison.
My Regards,
Norman.

Tatyana Dianova · 15th March 2018, 09:38 PM

Thank you Kai for your comments and ideas! Yes, the fittings may be later than the blade, although they have some age.
The sword has no provenance. It was bought from the auction, with the blade heavily rusted. Please see the original pictures.

Tatyana Dianova · 15th March 2018, 09:40 PM

Norman, you have a great Persian sword that deserves a careful restoration!
The blade is in much better condition than mine was, and it will polish very well. All these trade blades have great Wootz pattern!

Norman McCormick · 15th March 2018, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tatyana Dianova

Norman, you have a great Persian sword that deserves a careful restoration!
The blade is in much better condition than mine was, and it will polish very well. All these trade blades have great Wootz pattern!

Thank you Tatyana. A Forum Member translated the script on my blade which if you look at yours and mine side by side look very similar. The transition was as follows: The long inscription panel roughly translates, "There is no might, nor will, save with God, the exalted, the Almighty". On the opposite side, the smaller cartouche reads "Oh fulfiller of needs".
My Regards
Norman.

Tatyana Dianova · 16th March 2018, 10:49 AM

You are absolutely right Norman - the beginning of the inscription is identical, but mine is a couple of words shorter. Thank you for the translation!

Drabant1701 · 16th March 2018, 11:58 AM

These blades are very interesting. I have one of my own so I have read about these kind of blades when given the chance. It is facinating beacause these blades really seem to have ended up almost everywhere. In Robert Hales "Islamic and oriental arms and armor" page 192, there is a sumatra sword with a blade that has the lion and "fulfiller" text, and on page 201 there is a indonesian parang that has a blade with the long quranic inscription. According to Hales these blades ended up in that region when turkish fighters answered a Jihad call, when the dutch occupied Indonesia.

It would seem a lot of these blades ended up in India. There are two examples in "Rajput arms and armour by Robert Elgood. He dates the blades to mid 19th century and being made in Caucasus for export
The quranic verse on one of those blades is translated to "Praise be to Allah, there is no strength nor power exept Allah" (page 529)

There is yet another such blade with indian fittings on page 219 in "A passion for indian arms" by Jens Nordlunde. That blade has the inscription "If it is the will of God, no power, no authority without God, the biggest the most powerful".

There is also lots more information in: the Arms Collecting Journal, Vol. 40 #1, 2002, The Persian Shamshir and the Signature of Assad Allah by Oliver Pinchot

Below picture of my trade blade. Its a heavy Kilij style sword, with the quranic inscription one one side and the lion and "fullfiller" on the other. As Tatyana wrote there is a good chance that these blades are wootz, mine is wootz but it has faded a could use an etch. But....etching swords is hard. I does however "ring" like a tuning fork if you strike it agains something (not hard of course

)

15th March 2018, 09:20 PM	#2
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,618	Hi Tatyana, Unusual and interesting piece and yes if only these could talk and tell their stories. Here is my rather battered Persian trade blade of similar style for comparison. My Regards, Norman. Attached Images

15th March 2018, 09:38 PM	#3
Tatyana Dianova Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 736	Thank you Kai for your comments and ideas! Yes, the fittings may be later than the blade, although they have some age. The sword has no provenance. It was bought from the auction, with the blade heavily rusted. Please see the original pictures. Attached Images

16th March 2018, 11:58 AM	#7
Drabant1701 Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Sweden Posts: 181	These blades are very interesting. I have one of my own so I have read about these kind of blades when given the chance. It is facinating beacause these blades really seem to have ended up almost everywhere. In Robert Hales "Islamic and oriental arms and armor" page 192, there is a sumatra sword with a blade that has the lion and "fulfiller" text, and on page 201 there is a indonesian parang that has a blade with the long quranic inscription. According to Hales these blades ended up in that region when turkish fighters answered a Jihad call, when the dutch occupied Indonesia. It would seem a lot of these blades ended up in India. There are two examples in "Rajput arms and armour by Robert Elgood. He dates the blades to mid 19th century and being made in Caucasus for export The quranic verse on one of those blades is translated to "Praise be to Allah, there is no strength nor power exept Allah" (page 529) There is yet another such blade with indian fittings on page 219 in "A passion for indian arms" by Jens Nordlunde. That blade has the inscription "If it is the will of God, no power, no authority without God, the biggest the most powerful". There is also lots more information in: the Arms Collecting Journal, Vol. 40 #1, 2002, The Persian Shamshir and the Signature of Assad Allah by Oliver Pinchot Below picture of my trade blade. Its a heavy Kilij style sword, with the quranic inscription one one side and the lion and "fullfiller" on the other. As Tatyana wrote there is a good chance that these blades are wootz, mine is wootz but it has faded a could use an etch. But....etching swords is hard. I does however "ring" like a tuning fork if you strike it agains something (not hard of course ) Attached Images

15th March 2018, 01:16 PM	#1
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	P.S.: Any hints on provenance, Tatyana?

15th March 2018, 09:40 PM	#4
Tatyana Dianova Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 736	Norman, you have a great Persian sword that deserves a careful restoration! The blade is in much better condition than mine was, and it will polish very well. All these trade blades have great Wootz pattern!

16th March 2018, 10:49 AM	#6
Tatyana Dianova Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 736	You are absolutely right Norman - the beginning of the inscription is identical, but mine is a couple of words shorter. Thank you for the translation!