Old sword

Multumesc · 6th March 2018, 06:06 PM

Good evening.What do you think of this sword? I know there is a short version of 1907 in Spain and another handle.It has 60 cm total length, the blade is 46 cm, the handle is 14 cm.Thanks.

mariusgmioc · 8th March 2018, 11:18 AM

I guess nobody recognizes the mark.

Hotspur · 9th March 2018, 06:45 PM

Show the rest of the mark and in an upright manner.

Hotspur · 9th March 2018, 06:58 PM

Looks like an earlier version of the Argentine 1909 machete hanger. The 1909 has more of a long bolo look and less hook to the pommel. Some of the brothers Weyersburg of Solingen used to use the rooster. I'll look in Bezdek next time I'm at the desk.

Cheers

GC

drac2k · 9th March 2018, 06:59 PM

I am not stating that it definitively is, however there is the remote possibility that it is a current Chinese fantasy piece.

Hotspur · 12th March 2018, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drac2k

I am not stating that it definitively is, however there is the remote possibility that it is a current Chinese fantasy piece.

I am curious what you base that thought on. Do you have a comparable example to share?

Cheers

GC

Hotspur · 12th March 2018, 08:20 PM

So, yes, one of the Weyersburg family used a rooster and also a Werth. The latter from 1887-1917. There was a fair amount of export from Solingen to the South American trade and as described previously the Argentine 1909 bolo has a quite similar grip but of a different blade profile. The short sword above fits that role of artillery fascine work quite well.

Perhaps a mention of where this sword surfaced might add a clue.

Cheers

GC

drac2k · 13th March 2018, 12:19 AM

Here is a picture of the Spanish M1907 Artillery Bolo; as you can see the handle profile and the guard matches yours, however, there are some differences.The wood on your handles is roughly shaped and relatively clean and the rivets are cruder in my opinion.This could be explained by someone refinishing the handles.The blade bothers me as well, however, this is based only on intuition and not fact, so this is not a viable argument on my side.
The item could have been modified by some local South American blacksmith for someone's personal preference and as I acknowledged before I certainly could be wrong and I don't have it in my hand to assess properly, however, all this being said, I am still suspicious about the item.

fernando · 13th March 2018, 01:34 PM

Just to remind, Gentlemen that, items aged beyond the end 19th century do not fall within the scope of this European forum (as per front page sticky)

.

Hotspur · 13th March 2018, 04:32 PM

Right. The Werth and Weyersburg marks definitely had 19th century use and my speculation from the start was that the object sword is a precursor to the 20th century items. There shouldn't be an issue with using later items as a path of evolution to determine who the ancestors were.

Cheers

GC

fernando · 13th March 2018, 05:19 PM

Indeed Glen,
The so called context; reason why efforts had to reach a serious conclusion have gonne this far

.

6th March 2018, 06:06 PM	#1
Multumesc Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Romania Posts: 203	Old sword Good evening.What do you think of this sword? I know there is a short version of 1907 in Spain and another handle.It has 60 cm total length, the blade is 46 cm, the handle is 14 cm.Thanks. Attached Images

13th March 2018, 12:19 AM	#8
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,232	Here is a picture of the Spanish M1907 Artillery Bolo; as you can see the handle profile and the guard matches yours, however, there are some differences.The wood on your handles is roughly shaped and relatively clean and the rivets are cruder in my opinion.This could be explained by someone refinishing the handles.The blade bothers me as well, however, this is based only on intuition and not fact, so this is not a viable argument on my side. The item could have been modified by some local South American blacksmith for someone's personal preference and as I acknowledged before I certainly could be wrong and I don't have it in my hand to assess properly, however, all this being said, I am still suspicious about the item. Attached Images

8th March 2018, 11:18 AM	#2
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,903	I guess nobody recognizes the mark.

9th March 2018, 06:45 PM	#3
Hotspur Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Nipmuc USA Posts: 499	Show the rest of the mark and in an upright manner.

9th March 2018, 06:58 PM	#4
Hotspur Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Nipmuc USA Posts: 499	Looks like an earlier version of the Argentine 1909 machete hanger. The 1909 has more of a long bolo look and less hook to the pommel. Some of the brothers Weyersburg of Solingen used to use the rooster. I'll look in Bezdek next time I'm at the desk. Cheers GC

9th March 2018, 06:59 PM	#5
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,232	I am not stating that it definitively is, however there is the remote possibility that it is a current Chinese fantasy piece.

12th March 2018, 08:20 PM	#7
Hotspur Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Nipmuc USA Posts: 499	So, yes, one of the Weyersburg family used a rooster and also a Werth. The latter from 1887-1917. There was a fair amount of export from Solingen to the South American trade and as described previously the Argentine 1909 bolo has a quite similar grip but of a different blade profile. The short sword above fits that role of artillery fascine work quite well. Perhaps a mention of where this sword surfaced might add a clue. Cheers GC

13th March 2018, 01:34 PM	#9
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Just to remind, Gentlemen that, items aged beyond the end 19th century do not fall within the scope of this European forum (as per front page sticky) .

13th March 2018, 04:32 PM	#10
Hotspur Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Nipmuc USA Posts: 499	Right. The Werth and Weyersburg marks definitely had 19th century use and my speculation from the start was that the object sword is a precursor to the 20th century items. There shouldn't be an issue with using later items as a path of evolution to determine who the ancestors were. Cheers GC

13th March 2018, 05:19 PM	#11
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Indeed Glen, The so called context; reason why efforts had to reach a serious conclusion have gonne this far .