Some 'aggressive' tool for ID

[Madnumforce]

I don't know if it can help, Fernando, but in French hay knives are called "coupe-foin", hay-cutters. And the one you have there is refered to in catalogs as "coupe-foin américain", as there were traditional patterns that looked like spades. I've posted pictures of scans of toolmakers catalogs from around the 20's, showing both the "coupe-foin américain", other traditionnal French patterns of coupe-foins, and various other tools, including "coupe-marc" and "taille-pré" that are sometimes sold as medieval halberds or vouges for many hundreds of dollars/euros. Though it's still relatively rare, you can buy them in flee markets and garage sells for 40-120€

[kronckew]

Those coup-foin have quite a few variants that look like, with long handles, would make nasty weapons for peasant infantry levies. much like the english bill was used by the english infantry. I seem to recall one of the No. 1883 ones being sold as a heart shaped 'Halberd' on a well known auction site.

[Madnumforce]

Yes, it's relatively frequent to see agricultural or woodworking tools sold as weapons on auction sites, but also in legitimate auctions, and even displayed as such in museums. Not only is there a deep ignorance about tools, but there even is a will not to know anymore. Most often, the tools sold/displayed have typical 19th century features like maker stamps and such, which would immediately give them away to any even mildly experienced tool collector enthusiast.

Now about the fact that some tools could be used as weapon: sure! But as I just wrote, many of these tools are from the 19th century, or even early 20th, so these specific ones have a near zero chance to have ever been used in a military context. In some local riots, to let your neighbour know that he had his cattle grazing into your meadow one time too many, or to teach a lesson to that guy who kissed your girlfriend at patron saint ball, yes, surely.

But as the "peasants" using them did not really care about them that much (they wouldn't have wanted to lose it or have it stolen, but if it broke or they knew they wouldn't have any more use of it, they could have it recycled in a hammer, a plowshare, whatever), and because historians, archeologists and curators almost don't care about tools, and their collecting value is much lower than that of weapons (while they need as much maintenance and care), there really is a difficulty to try to reconstruct the evolution of some specific kind of tools. The coupe-foin, coupe-marc and taille-pré are among those tools we have no clue if they even existed in the 18th century, for example, or what shape they were, etc... There may be some surviving specimens somewhere, in some private collection, or hung to a wall. The trouble is the scarcity of the data, how few people are interested in collecting it, and how scattered the knowledge is. Peasant life left very very few traces in iconography and literature.

Recently, I was thrilled because I have found a picture of a very well preserved 11th century capital, showing two peasants fighting each other with a billhook, for a period we have near zero iconography, and which specimens are completely overlooked by archeological research. We know relatively well what Roman era billhooks looked like, simply because the period raises much interest and despite the archeologists' lack of interest for tools, they still include them in their reports among the various metallic (s)crap they find. We of course have catalogs from the early 20th century, and many surviving examples from the 19th century, some of the 18th and 17th, but very few data in between (except when it comes to vine cultivation, as it was seen as something of interest by the ruling/educated class). So this capital was rather exceptional, especially in this mind-boggling state of preservation (it had been re-used in the building of a wall, sculpted face facing inward, and this is what preserved it).

Also, a picture of the only coupe-marc I have. Overall head length 55cm, blade lenght 41cm, blade width 11.5cm, and average blade thickness varies along the lenght, but starts at around 5mm if you exclude the transitional zone with the socket, and the weight of the head is a tad under 2kg. I would say it's a bit too heavy to make a good poleweapon, and it lacks a thrusting point, but if nothing else was available, it surely would be more than enough to split someone's head to the teeth without even forcing. Oh, just to make it clear: the edge is on the convex side of the blade, the concave side is the spine.

[fernando]

Merci Geoffroy, for the complementary info, the catalogue pages ... and the picture of that magnificent capital. If you were to make a joke about tools serving as weapons, or vice versa, you would say that those two guys are about to trim eachothers beards .
Now, coupe-foin sounds more like it in my idiom; it would translate as corta-feno, although i find no tool with such name over here. Amazing that although my example looks fully American, the first time i see one with the center handle towards the right, like mine, is French nº 364 in F. BRET catalogue.
Gathering things like this hay knife is result of giving full attention to unusual old tools in flea markets, in order not to let go specimens that have eventually served as weapons, under this or that circumstance. I too had an interesting coupe-marc discussed HERE, which i ended up passing it over to a friend who also likes to gather interesting tools, even knowing they are not weapons. Perhaps the tool i currently have more close to being a weapon is THIS ONE

[Madnumforce]

I have two or three coupe-foins américains, I'll check in what side is the front handle. I don't think it's very significant though, as precisely the coupe-foin américain should be held with the rear handle in the right hand, while the coupe-foin du Centre, for the exact same function, should be held rear handle in the left hand, even in its standard pattern, always designed for right-handed people. Maybe the one you have was made for a left-handed user, but maybe not. It's hard to tell...

But the "Lightning" hay knife can be dated quite precisely, as it's an actual invention and not a traditional pattern, and was patented by George Weymouth of Dresden (somewhere in the USA I guess, not the real Dresden) in 1871. So there is no chance that any of these was ever used for combat.

But that socketed thing you have seems quite interesting. It could have been designed as a weapon, but could also have been a tool. I know of no similar tool in France, but there are sometimes very specialised tools we rarely come across. Anyway, it's always a good thing to grab unusual old tools, when they're cheap. So many probably ends up scrapped.

[Pukka Bundook]

The type of hay -knife I used as a lad, looked closest to N0 1883. (Heart shaped, ) These would be about 16 " wide at the top of the 'heart'. (40 CM)

One point if I may;
Some working tools will show up with (for example) British War Department broad arrows on them.
Some may take this as evidence that they were used as weapons.
No, this is a false conclusion usually.
What it usually means, is that the tool, (a billhook for instance) was part of the kit for most infantry or gun sections, for cutting brush and/for camouflage work.
I still have a1916 WD Billhook that grandfather probably purchased as Army Surplus between the wars. Still use it a lot as well! It Would make a rather devastating weapon, but such was not its intended use.

We also have a 1917 dated draw-knife , broad arrow marked.
(This is my 'new' one. :-) My old one that has lived with our family for generations, was made between 1790 and 1811 if I remember correctly.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

... We also have a 1917 dated draw-knife , broad arrow marked.... (This is my 'new' one. :-) My old one that has lived with our family for generations, was made between 1790 and 1811 if I remember correctly...

Interesting to realize that, in line with the dual use of tools, you might as well "draw" someone's neck with such device; you just have to aproach him by the back .

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Madnumforce

I have two or three coupe-foins américains, I'll check in what side is the front handle.... Maybe the one you have was made for a left-handed user, but maybe not. It's hard to tell...

Just considering that left handed implements tend to be rare, specially early ones, as being off standard they had to be ordered, making them unique. I am glad i have a XVI century left handed sword.