A very heavy Carved stone Buddha

Cerjak · 15th January 2018, 06:12 PM

A very heavy Carved stone Buddha

I have no knowledge on Buddha statue so I would like to have an idea about the possible age of this statue.
The statue measures about 60 cm and weighs circa 60 kg.
I have seen many Buddha statue but most of them are seating in lotus and I did not find one seating in the same position . May be this could help for a date it ? This statue has a custom permission wax seal.
Any information on it will be highly appreciated.

mariusgmioc · 15th January 2018, 09:49 PM

Impressive!

Unfortunately, I cannot help you at all. Let's hope somebody can but in case nobody can, then you may want to address the issue to the specialist of an auction house.

Cerjak · 16th January 2018, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Impressive!

Unfortunately, I cannot help you at all. Let's hope somebody can but in case nobody can, then you may want to address the issue to the specialist of an auction house.

Thank you Marius I will certainly ask the opinion to the specialist of an auction house I hope they will reply.
Best
Cerjak

BANDOOK · 16th January 2018, 10:08 AM

Hi Cerjak,
This style of Buddha is from China,till one sees this piece personally one cant say if its Ancient,as many reproductions from China,India and Thailand
Regards
Rajesh

Cerjak · 16th January 2018, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BANDOOK

Hi Cerjak,
This style of Buddha is from China,till one sees this piece personally one cant say if its Ancient,as many reproductions from China,India and Thailand
Regards
Rajesh

Hi Rajesh
I don't think it was made for the tourist market it is showing sign of age and also it has an old rest of custom permission wax seal.
It is not the type of piece you could carry in your luggage!
The previous owner who was Transit Chief for a Belgium airline company in India in the 70-80's and was also a collector of Asian artifact has imported it in the late 80's.
What it is specific on this statue is the sitting position I did not find one in my research with the same position and also with the personage in each side .
I would like to know the signification .
Best
Cerjak

colin henshaw · 16th January 2018, 12:33 PM

With this sort of artefact, I would usually contact a suitable, knowledgeable, Museum curator for an opinion. I agree there are many fakes, modern productions etc. in this area...

A. G. Maisey · 16th January 2018, 09:22 PM

This European style of seated Buddha is found across SE Asia, it is best known from Thailand,+/ - 600CE, Dvaravati culture. Some people call it "pendant leg" position, some people call it "pralambapodosana" (Sanscrit).

I understand that scholars of Buddhist iconography regard this position as representative of the Buddha Sakyamuni or the Buddha Maitreya --- another name was given also, but I forget it, "Vai------" something.

Maybe ten years ago an academic named Rivere who worked in Thailand published a paper on this Euro style position in the Indo Pacific Pre-History Association Journal. I've got a copy somewhere but don't ask me to find it.

An after-thought:- I think I might have read or heard somewhere that this position is actually representative of The Buddha as King, or maybe The King as A Buddha, the seat itself is supposedly a throne and the concept is that The Buddha rules the World.

All this is half remembered stuff that I read a long time ago, but it might provide some pointers for somebody with time to look for accurate info.

Cerjak · 17th January 2018, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

This European style of seated Buddha is found across SE Asia, it is best known from Thailand,+/ - 600CE, Dvaravati culture. Some people call it "pendant leg" position, some people call it "pralambapodosana" (Sanscrit).

I understand that scholars of Buddhist iconography regard this position as representative of the Buddha Sakyamuni or the Buddha Maitreya --- another name was given also, but I forget it, "Vai------" something.

Maybe ten years ago an academic named Rivere who worked in Thailand published a paper on this Euro style position in the Indo Pacific Pre-History Association Journal. I've got a copy somewhere but don't ask me to find it.

An after-thought:- I think I might have read or heard somewhere that this position is actually representative of The Buddha as King, or maybe The King as A Buddha, the seat itself is supposedly a throne and the concept is that The Buddha rules the World.

All this is half remembered stuff that I read a long time ago, but it might provide some pointers for somebody with time to look for accurate info.

Hi Alan

Thank you so much for this information ,I think it will be useful for my research on this Buddha.I already found one buhdda statue in the same position
Best

Cerjak

Athanase · 17th January 2018, 05:32 PM

I find that the stone has a strange look. Would it be possible to have close-ups of the areas where the stone is broken?

Cerjak · 17th January 2018, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Athanase

I find that the stone has a strange look. Would it be possible to have close-ups of the areas where the stone is broken?

this area ?

kai · 18th January 2018, 02:26 PM

I was also wondering about those little dots... (On the surface only?)

The close-up does not show enough detail to reveal the inner stone(?) structure. Any chance that this is a cast replica, Jean-Luc?

Regards,
Kai

Cerjak · 18th January 2018, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

I was also wondering about those little dots... (On the surface only?)

The close-up does not show enough detail to reveal the inner stone(?) structure. Any chance that this is a cast replica, Jean-Luc?

Regards,
Kai

Not a cast for sure !
Best

Jean-Luc

kai · 18th January 2018, 02:35 PM

Phew, that's a relief!

The paint seems to sit on top of the dots while the stone base seems to have a different structure. Is there some plaster or something in between?

Regards,
Kai

A. G. Maisey · 18th January 2018, 09:21 PM

My guess is that the stone was almost certainly covered with a layer of plaster. I believe careful inspection will reveal small areas of plaster still in place.

Something that is not generally realised is that in ancient times all those beautiful old, weathered stone buildings and statues were painted in bright colours --- well, maybe not "all", but most certainly most of them were.

The candis of Jawa were brightly painted and could be seen for miles. The same applied with Classical Greek sculpture --- as Euripides makes clear in his "Helen".

This stone statue would have been plastered and painted when it was new.

Cerjak · 20th January 2018, 08:48 PM

Dear Alan and Kei Thank you all for your help.
I spent a lot of time reviewing this statue again.
First of all the exact weight is 66.5 kg
Dimensions: the base 38*28 cm
Height 66 cm
For sure not a cast . the dots could be removed easily
My guess is that a water runoff caused a limestone accumulation this could explain the small dots on the surface.
This statue is made of a black stone.
Anyway the best would be to show it to a specialist but with this weight it is not easy to transport !
Best

Cerjak

BANDOOK · 1st February 2018, 10:47 AM

Hi Cerjak
Greetings so I was right it being of Chinese origin.
Best Regards,
Rajesh

15th January 2018, 06:12 PM	#1
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,065	A very heavy Carved stone Buddha A very heavy Carved stone Buddha I have no knowledge on Buddha statue so I would like to have an idea about the possible age of this statue. The statue measures about 60 cm and weighs circa 60 kg. I have seen many Buddha statue but most of them are seating in lotus and I did not find one seating in the same position . May be this could help for a date it ? This statue has a custom permission wax seal. Any information on it will be highly appreciated. Attached Images

16th January 2018, 09:22 PM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,897	This European style of seated Buddha is found across SE Asia, it is best known from Thailand,+/ - 600CE, Dvaravati culture. Some people call it "pendant leg" position, some people call it "pralambapodosana" (Sanscrit). I understand that scholars of Buddhist iconography regard this position as representative of the Buddha Sakyamuni or the Buddha Maitreya --- another name was given also, but I forget it, "Vai------" something. Maybe ten years ago an academic named Rivere who worked in Thailand published a paper on this Euro style position in the Indo Pacific Pre-History Association Journal. I've got a copy somewhere but don't ask me to find it. An after-thought:- I think I might have read or heard somewhere that this position is actually representative of The Buddha as King, or maybe The King as A Buddha, the seat itself is supposedly a throne and the concept is that The Buddha rules the World. All this is half remembered stuff that I read a long time ago, but it might provide some pointers for somebody with time to look for accurate info. Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 16th January 2018 at 09:33 PM.

20th January 2018, 08:48 PM	#15
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,065	Dear Alan and Kei Thank you all for your help. I spent a lot of time reviewing this statue again. First of all the exact weight is 66.5 kg Dimensions: the base 38*28 cm Height 66 cm For sure not a cast . the dots could be removed easily My guess is that a water runoff caused a limestone accumulation this could explain the small dots on the surface. This statue is made of a black stone. Anyway the best would be to show it to a specialist but with this weight it is not easy to transport ! Best Cerjak Attached Images

15th January 2018, 09:49 PM	#2
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,903	Impressive! Unfortunately, I cannot help you at all. Let's hope somebody can but in case nobody can, then you may want to address the issue to the specialist of an auction house.

16th January 2018, 10:08 AM	#4
BANDOOK Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: AUCKLAND,NEW ZEALAND Posts: 624	Hi Cerjak, This style of Buddha is from China,till one sees this piece personally one cant say if its Ancient,as many reproductions from China,India and Thailand Regards Rajesh

16th January 2018, 12:33 PM	#6
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,430	With this sort of artefact, I would usually contact a suitable, knowledgeable, Museum curator for an opinion. I agree there are many fakes, modern productions etc. in this area...

17th January 2018, 05:32 PM	#9
Athanase Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Paris (France) Posts: 408	I find that the stone has a strange look. Would it be possible to have close-ups of the areas where the stone is broken?

18th January 2018, 02:26 PM	#11
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	I was also wondering about those little dots... (On the surface only?) The close-up does not show enough detail to reveal the inner stone(?) structure. Any chance that this is a cast replica, Jean-Luc? Regards, Kai

18th January 2018, 02:35 PM	#13
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Phew, that's a relief! The paint seems to sit on top of the dots while the stone base seems to have a different structure. Is there some plaster or something in between? Regards, Kai

18th January 2018, 09:21 PM	#14
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,897	My guess is that the stone was almost certainly covered with a layer of plaster. I believe careful inspection will reveal small areas of plaster still in place. Something that is not generally realised is that in ancient times all those beautiful old, weathered stone buildings and statues were painted in bright colours --- well, maybe not "all", but most certainly most of them were. The candis of Jawa were brightly painted and could be seen for miles. The same applied with Classical Greek sculpture --- as Euripides makes clear in his "Helen". This stone statue would have been plastered and painted when it was new.

1st February 2018, 10:47 AM	#16
BANDOOK Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: AUCKLAND,NEW ZEALAND Posts: 624	Hi Cerjak Greetings so I was right it being of Chinese origin. Best Regards, Rajesh