an old keris tok chu..but is it from the master?

mariusgmioc · 10th January 2018, 01:54 PM

Hello gentlemen,

While I didn't do any study on the magnetic properties of the keris, I want to highlight that ANY ferous object has some degree of magnetism as it is directly generated by Earth's own magnetic field. You can test this by aproaching steel spoons, scisors, knives, watches, etc. to a compass.

Moreover, most mechanical processing mechanisms, whether through plastic deformation or throgh chip removing, produce additional magnetization of the ferrous materials.

Last, but not least, the magnetic properties of a metal are greatly influenced by its composition and crystalline structure.

So I do not believe that magnetic properties of a keris can be considered as an indicator of age or quality, unless they are scientifically assesed.

David · 10th January 2018, 03:28 PM

Yes Marius, of course all iron is magnetic, but it can still exhibit a weak magnetic field (polarization). So many keris that i have personally handled only move the compass needle just slightly when approaching a compass. Being magnetic and being magnetized are two different things though. By applying a powerful magnet to the keris the blade is magnetized and now has a strong active north/south polarization. The blade become a magnet itself (it can now pick up a steel pin for instance).
Only Alexish made the suggestion that this might be used to judge the age of the blade, an idea he got from a dealer in Singapore. Dealers say a lot of things. I think most of us agree that this is unlikely.

Rick · 10th January 2018, 06:32 PM

Quite handy on a Binnacle.

David · 10th January 2018, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Quite handy on a Binnacle.

OK Rick, i'll bite...
What on Earth is THAT!

Rick · 10th January 2018, 09:34 PM

Flyovers...

The Binnacle holds the compass on a ship.
The two iron balls help to keep it properly 'tuned' so to speak.
The red one is on the left or port side of the vessel; green is on the starboard or right side as are the running lights on said vessel.

My Old Man used to give me a lot of grief about it when I was a kid because channel bouys are marked the same way and if you make a mistake woe be upon you..

When you leave a harbor you leave the red bouys on the left side of the vessel; returning, you leave them on the right; thus red, right, returning.

I remembered it this way: Port wine is red, both Port and Left have 4 letters.

I love Port.

David · 10th January 2018, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

I love Port.

Aye Aye Capt'n...but i prefer scotch.

Green · 11th January 2018, 02:07 AM

David;

The tok chu style pics you showed in #7 are almost certainly a very recent copies of tok chu blade and made in kelantan... they are easily found on sales here and we can even commission keris makers to make to whatever size you like. they show typical tok chu archetype but some keris 'esperts' over here claim there are at least a few more tok chu style/dhapur which to me look very different from this classic type.

Shieh

Welcome to the forum!
Yes that's che Gu nasir i mean ... a silat teacher from kelantan and one of the keris experts that sometimes are asked to be keris judge in keris competitions.. A rather moody character prone to giving philosophical advice and criticisms to his students on fb postings!

I did show this blade to him in private message and his comments is rather surprising and I'm in no way able to agree or contradict him because I simply don't know enough. Here's the translation of his comment:

" I am of the opinion that it is Alang Petani. To me this keris (type) is earlier than pandai saras. Many people disagree with me but i feel that this is the early design of keris patani, kelantan and pahang."

10th January 2018, 06:32 PM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	Iron Quite handy on a Binnacle. Attached Images

10th January 2018, 01:54 PM	#1
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,911	Hello gentlemen, While I didn't do any study on the magnetic properties of the keris, I want to highlight that ANY ferous object has some degree of magnetism as it is directly generated by Earth's own magnetic field. You can test this by aproaching steel spoons, scisors, knives, watches, etc. to a compass. Moreover, most mechanical processing mechanisms, whether through plastic deformation or throgh chip removing, produce additional magnetization of the ferrous materials. Last, but not least, the magnetic properties of a metal are greatly influenced by its composition and crystalline structure. So I do not believe that magnetic properties of a keris can be considered as an indicator of age or quality, unless they are scientifically assesed.

10th January 2018, 03:28 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,218	Yes Marius, of course all iron is magnetic, but it can still exhibit a weak magnetic field (polarization). So many keris that i have personally handled only move the compass needle just slightly when approaching a compass. Being magnetic and being magnetized are two different things though. By applying a powerful magnet to the keris the blade is magnetized and now has a strong active north/south polarization. The blade become a magnet itself (it can now pick up a steel pin for instance). Only Alexish made the suggestion that this might be used to judge the age of the blade, an idea he got from a dealer in Singapore. Dealers say a lot of things. I think most of us agree that this is unlikely.

10th January 2018, 09:34 PM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	Flyovers... The Binnacle holds the compass on a ship. The two iron balls help to keep it properly 'tuned' so to speak. The red one is on the left or port side of the vessel; green is on the starboard or right side as are the running lights on said vessel. My Old Man used to give me a lot of grief about it when I was a kid because channel bouys are marked the same way and if you make a mistake woe be upon you.. When you leave a harbor you leave the red bouys on the left side of the vessel; returning, you leave them on the right; thus red, right, returning. I remembered it this way: Port wine is red, both Port and Left have 4 letters. I love Port.

11th January 2018, 02:07 AM	#7
Green Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Malaysia Posts: 323	David; The tok chu style pics you showed in #7 are almost certainly a very recent copies of tok chu blade and made in kelantan... they are easily found on sales here and we can even commission keris makers to make to whatever size you like. they show typical tok chu archetype but some keris 'esperts' over here claim there are at least a few more tok chu style/dhapur which to me look very different from this classic type. Shieh Welcome to the forum! Yes that's che Gu nasir i mean ... a silat teacher from kelantan and one of the keris experts that sometimes are asked to be keris judge in keris competitions.. A rather moody character prone to giving philosophical advice and criticisms to his students on fb postings! I did show this blade to him in private message and his comments is rather surprising and I'm in no way able to agree or contradict him because I simply don't know enough. Here's the translation of his comment: " I am of the opinion that it is Alang Petani. To me this keris (type) is earlier than pandai saras. Many people disagree with me but i feel that this is the early design of keris patani, kelantan and pahang."