Is this a siraui?

[Sajen]

Hi Ian,

the hole in the hilt seems natural to my eyes, I have a Kalasan hilt with a very similar hole at this place.

Regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

Forget, what to my feeling look weird is the orientation of the handle.

[kai]

Hello Detlef,

weird is the orientation of the handle.

One might argue that this may point to northern Sumatra.

However, neither blade nor hilt nor scabbard do seem to vibe with any established pattern - another possible oddball...

Regards,
Kai

[kai]

the hole in the hilt seems natural to my eyes, I have a Kalasan hilt with a very similar hole at this place.

A pic would be great, Detlef!

This is very unlikely to be a natural defect/malformation: The end of the hollow portion of a horn is a fairly acute and rounded "cone" - here we're looking at the endgrain and such a shallow depression does not make any sense unless there was something inlaid. OTOH, the shape does not seem to be perfectly regular and the whole piece is a rather plain ensemble without extant decorative elements...

Regards,
Kai

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by kai

A pic would be great, Detlef!

This is very unlikely to be a natural defect/malformation: The end of the hollow portion of a horn is a fairly acute and rounded "cone" - here we're looking at the endgrain and such a shallow depression does not make any sense unless there was something inlaid. OTOH, the shape does not seem to be perfectly regular and the whole piece is a rather plain ensemble without extant decorative elements...

Hi Kai,

here you go.
Like said, at least by my kalasan handle I feel very confident that the hole is natural. When you look close you see the natural grain around the hole which is in the middle, I think to see the same by Ian's handle. Buffalo horn is hollow in the most of it's length and only at the end massive. I think it's a inadvertent accident from the carver. The hole in the handle from Ian's knive look very similar to my eyes. And the knife isn't fancy at all so I doubt that the hole is extra carved for a jimat.
Just my thought which is worth like any other thought since we just don't know if the hole was carved with aim.

Best regards,
Detlef

[Ian]

Thanks Detlef. Yes, a very similar defect and I agree that there appear to be a couple of concentric rings around my example also.

Ian.

[kai]

Hello Ian,

I agree that there appear to be a couple of concentric rings around my example also.

Yes, the hilt of your example obviously includes the central part of a horn.

I'm less convinced that the opening really follows the growth rings - it does look a bit unregular/polygonal (anyway, waterbuffalo horn is not perfectly round to begin with) and, more importantly, several rings seem to (partly) touch the opening which might point to human intervention/carving.

Regards,
Kai

[kai]

Hello Detlef,

Thanks, that makes a good comparison!

Like said, at least by my kalasan handle I feel very confident that the hole is natural. When you look close you see the natural grain around the hole which is in the middle, I think to see the same by Ian's handle. Buffalo horn is hollow in the most of it's length and only at the end massive.

Yes, your's looks like the natural cavity. Notice the relatively smooth inner surface and the depth of the hole (compared to the surface of the opening).

However, what throws me with Ian's example is the considerable area of the opening and the relatively shallow depression: Considering the rather limited diameter of the pommel, one would expect the cavity to reach the front of the pommel or at least very close! (There is a slight angle to the grain - it might be possible that the tip of the cavity extends into the gripping area.)

Ian, can you ascertain whether the bottom of the hole is only resin/fillings or is there also solid horn? An X-ray would be nice to have...

I think it's a inadvertent accident from the carver. The hole in the handle from Ian's knive look very similar to my eyes. And the knife isn't fancy at all so I doubt that the hole is extra carved for a jimat.

True, maybe the resin was just supposed to patch the hole.

BTW, I don't think this really is an accident or missing skill of the carver - most likely these are lesser examples made to a budget while the largest horns or best pieces were reserved for VIPs...

Regards,
Kai

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by kai

BTW, I don't think this really is an accident or missing skill of the carver - most likely these are lesser examples made to a budget while the largest horns or best pieces were reserved for VIPs...

Sounds like a very likely reason. The kalasan is an average example, eyes from bullen-nails are the only metal adornments but with a good blade.

Regards,
Detlef

[Ian]

A couple more knives that might have some similarity to the topic of this thread. The top one (OAL = 14 inches) has a blade of similar shape with its edge towards the bottom of the page. The second one (OAL = 12.5 inches) has its edge facing upwards. Both have bone handles, the second having most of the humerus bone of a monkey. The second one also has a small copper coin worn smooth for a disk guard and a strip of copper wrapped around the blade adjacent to the hilt.

I don't know where the first one came from--perhaps one of the hill tribes from MSEA. The second one is from Vietnam where it was collected in the early 20th C.

These village quality knives have always impressed me with their utility and generally high craftsmanship given the fairly basic tools that went into making them.

Ian.

.

[Sajen]

Hi Ian,

the first one is a Nias knife, very nice and rare piece! Here a you can see my one: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...highlight=nias

Best Regards and a Happy New Year,
Detlef